Who Pays For Adult Kids Expenses?

After a divorce who pays for student loans and a children's credit cards? Matthew Brickman and Sydney Mitchell answer your most frequently asked questions about divorce as they go over several key points:

• Assume nothing.
• Know who you are before you get married. 
• Know who you're getting married to. 
• Know the laws and statutes in the state you live in.
• Don't take advice from anyone who isn't a legal professional in the state in which you're getting married and living in.

If you have a matter, disagreement, or dispute you need professional help with then visit iMediate.com - Email mbrickman@ichatmediation or Call (877) 822-1479

Matthew Brickman is a Florida Supreme Court certified family and appellate mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. But what makes him qualified to speak on the subject of conflict resolution is his own personal experience with divorce.

Download Matthew's book on iTunes for FREE:
You're Not the Only One - The Agony of Divorce: The Joy of Peaceful Resolution

Matthew Brickman
President iMediate Inc.
Mediator 20836CFA
iMediateInc.com

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ABOUT MATTHEW BRICKMAN:
Matthew Brickman is a Supreme Court of Florida certified county civil family mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. He is also an appellate certified mediator who mediates a variety of small claims, civil, and family cases. Mr. Brickman recently graduated both the Harvard Business School Negotiation Mastery Program and the Negotiation Master Class at Harvard Law School.

Transcript

Sydney Mitchell: 0:00

Hi. My name is Sydney Mitchell.

Matthew Brickman: 0:02

Hi, I'm Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

Sydney Mitchell: 0:13

Well, Hey everyone. I'm Sidney sitting here with Matthew on today's episode of Mediate This! We have been receiving tons of questions from you, our listeners, for us to talk about, and today we're gonna be tackling one of those questions after a divorce who pays for student loans and the children's credit cards after the age of 18 Matthew, I've read this question a couple times. I'm a little confused about the, the after 18 part, but I'm gonna read it again and then you take it where you wanna take it. Okay. The question says, after a divorce who pays for student loans and the children's credit cards.

Matthew Brickman: 0:50

So yeah, this is maybe it's just the way that they worded it when they submitted it. Um, the way that I'm reading this is basically, let's say, for example, mom and dad have one child. Okay. I'm just gonna use this for this example. Mom and dad have one child

Sydney Mitchell: 1:10

Make it as simple as

Matthew Brickman: 1:12

Possible. Yeah. Oh yeah. We're not thing. I have five kids now, mom and dad have one child. Let's say that this child is 20 years old, has credit cards and has student loans. And now mom and dad are getting divorced. Are mom and dad responsible for the child's credit cards? Sure. And the child's student loans or is the child responsible. And now that's one way to read it. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna answer it that way then I'm gonna read it a different way. Okay. So if mom and dad are getting divorced and they've got a child that's over the age of 18 and that child has their own student loans and their own credit cards, a lot of it goes the same way, Sidney, that we would just treat mom and dad's credit cards, which is the bank cannot supersede the court. The court cannot supersede the bank. If the child signed the loan docs for their student loans, they're responsible. If the child signed up for their credit cards, they're responsible. But what if mom and dad co-signed for it, right? Yeah.

Sydney Mitchell: 2:28

That's what I was

Matthew Brickman: 2:29

Gonna ask. Yeah. What if, what if mom and dad co-signed then for it? Well, then it doesn't matter what we do in family law, the bank or the lender or the federal government is coming after both of'em. It doesn't matter. Um, and so if a child is over 18 and they get their own credit cards, their own student loans, they're not considered a minor child, so they're not subject to the court for anything mm-hmm<affirmative>. And if it's in the child's names, then mom and dad aren't responsible. And if, if mom and dad signed co-signed for it, well then it, it, it can go sort of two ways because technically it is their debt. So we would have to look and see, when was it taken out? Was it taken out, you know, uh, pre or post filing and a lot of it too, a lot of things, a lot of things like this Sydney, what I've seen is it doesn't really matter what the law says. Mom and dad usually have their own understanding because it's their child. Sure. So they've already like, and, and, and I've, I've actually had a number of mediations where like mom and dad came and they said, look, you know what? We've got these debts and we're each going to be 50% responsible. This is our child. We don't care. So if, if we even have to mention it in the agreement, just put that we're each gonna be 50% responsible. Okay, great, fine. Whatever. Now, let me read this another way. After a divorce who pays for the child's student loans and credit cards after the age of 18? Well, let's say for example, that the child, um, somehow got credit cards or, and, and, and this happens, you've got, I mean, these days we've got so many kids doing dual enrollment before they're 18, they're actually getting student loans and they're graduating with an AA, right? Mm-hmm,<affirmative>, mm-hmm,<affirmative> well, who's responsible for that. Well, if the child is not emancipated again, we have to look at who signed the docs, right? Like who signed, who, you know, who, you know, who's a, co-signer, who's responsible for it. Um, and you know, and how do the parties wanna deal with it? We're in mediation, everything is negotiable. And so, um, when dealing with kids' debts, I haven't had that much with kids' debts. Um, what is interesting is, you know, some states child support goes to 21. Um, so maybe this was submitted to somebody like that, where a parenting plan and child support, or, sorry, not a parenting plan. Child support goes till 21. And so what happens if an 18 year old who can get a student loan and get credit cards gets one, and they're still child support. Right. I think still, it goes to, well, who signed up for it? If the child signed up for it? Well, it's the child now. I've also, and I I'm gonna go in another direction here, cuz this is sort of a loaded question, right? Mm-hmm<affirmative>, I've had it where like dad and I had one, two days ago. So this is recent dad had, I think it was like five or six different retirement accounts. They were all funded during the marriage. So it's all marital monies. I mean, but two of the accounts were in his kids' names, one in his son's name, one in his daughter's name. Okay. So is that half of that mom's money or is all of that off the table? And it's the kids' money? Mm-hmm<affirmative> because here's the deal, dad can't start an IRA for a child. He has to give the child the money and then that gets funded from the child. Right. Well, so is that a gift? I don't know, in this mediation that I did have mom was like, yeah, yeah. That's our kids' money. That's not to be touched and distributed. Okay, fine. Like I said, everybody has their own idea. This, this mom and dad had said, no, that's our kids' money. Leave it alone. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> I have had a mediation or two in the past where they said, I don't care if it is that's marital funds. I want half of it. And yeah, it was technically marital funds that funded it for the kids. And so at that point, as a mediator, Sydney, I posed the question to make the statement of, look, there's only so much money around go to, you know, to go around. It's either going to you or your kid, where do you want it? It's like, do you wanna take it from your kid? So you can have it? Or do you wanna leave it with your it's it's going one of two places either. You're gonna take it from your kid or you're gonna leave it for your kid. And usually most parents don't wanna be that parent<laugh> that took money from their kid. And is forever know when you put a lot, you depleted their college savings, right? Yeah. So now, um, another thing that I run into is vehicles because you know, their, their, you know, maybe they've had a car mm-hmm<affirmative>, they're not over the age of 18, but they've had a car and now they're getting divorced. I had a mediation a couple weeks ago where, you know, mom had a car, dad had two cars and then dad was a co-signer for the son's car. And mom was a co-signer for the daughter's car. Okay. Well where'd the money come from for the cars? Well, it came from mom and dad, the kids aren't working there in school. Right. Well, so do we value those as marital assets? Or do we leave them alone as those are the kids' assets? Again, this particular couple said, take'em out of the equation. That's for kids more times than not Sydney, mom and dad are like, take it out of the equation. We're not dividing up our kids. So we bought those for our kids and plus still look the daughter's car they're coming after the cosigner, the FA you know, the son's car, the bank would come after whoever cosigned for it. So regardless of what we put in a mediation agreement, the bank's gonna come after whoever is on that loan. But both of these parents said, no, no, no, no, those are our kids' cars even. And you know, and, and I've had it too, where like, everything was in dad's name, mom's car, dad's car, the kid's car, everything was in their name. And it's like, well, so is this all dad's assets? Well, no, mom's gonna get one. Okay, fine. That's gonna be mom's asset. And then the kids are gonna get their own. Okay. And the parties agree. No, that's all gonna come out. Mm-hmm<affirmative> everything's negotiable, but okay. I have, yeah,

Sydney Mitchell: 9:08

Go ahead. So sorry. Um,

Matthew Brickman: 9:09

No, no, I was gonna say, but that that's about all I've got for like, basically on that question, unless you have a question about that

Sydney Mitchell: 9:14

Question. Yeah. My only other like extraneous situation, and maybe it, you would answer it the exact same way. Um, if a child has like, if they've incurred, um, any kind of, any type of medical debt, like they had a surgery or procedure or an accident or whatever, and the parents are in some type of medical debt that's attached to the child. Um, is that even a relevant thing to talk about? Or tell me what would, what would a family do in that situation?

Matthew Brickman: 9:43

Great question. We, I, I get

Sydney Mitchell: 9:45

That a lot. Sometimes I ask a question I'm like, is this a really dumb question? Am I, am I missing something?

Matthew Brickman: 9:50

No, no, no. Great question. So, so yeah, so, you know, I've had mediations where like, you know, the son played football and ended up having to get knee surgery. Right. Like, okay. Who's debt, is that right? Well,

Sydney Mitchell: 10:05

Or does it have to do with whose insurance they're on?

Matthew Brickman: 10:08

Yeah. You gotta look and see, you gotta look and see. Well, and most children do not have their own insurance, right? Oh yeah. Your own mom and dad's insurance, which means, guess what? One of their names as an adult is on the medical bill. Right. Which makes it marital.

Sydney Mitchell: 10:28

So I'm

Matthew Brickman: 10:29

And Sydney what's interesting is that, oh no, nobody. I don't think I've ever had anyone who said no, no, no, no. That's our kids' debt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're gonna leave that out. No, when it comes to debts, they're like, and you're paying half of it.

Sydney Mitchell: 10:43

Right. It's

Matthew Brickman: 10:44

Weird. But like, like debts, they will, they're like, no we're splitting, but assets. A lot of times with assets are like, no, no, no, we're gonna take the kids' asset out, but oh, we're splitting that debt. It's weird.

Sydney Mitchell: 10:56

Right. Okay. So, and maybe this is just a question. So this is a question I'm curious about. Okay. Um, I'm not married, I'm single for those of you that may not know me and I don't have any children. Um, I think growing up, like if I'm remembering correctly, I think maybe I have one sister. So it was just two of us. One of us was on my mom's insurance and one of us was on my dad's. Is that possible? Is that likely what would've happened? Is that what a lot of families do? Is it just, well then whichever kid, like I'm way more accident prone<laugh> so it was just like, you know, if my, if I was on my dad's insurance, like sucks us suck. If I get hurt, it's his responsibility? Like what are families doing nowadays to alleviate, um, unexpected debt in advance?

Matthew Brickman: 11:41

Yeah. So it it's very rare Sydney and gosh, I'm thinking maybe, I mean, and I'm talking 15 years, 2,700 plus mediations. I'm thinking maybe I had two or three that could barely, that I could barely remember that that had may have been on separate, like on mom or mom. Like each of them had a policy and each of them were going to ensure a child

Sydney Mitchell: 12:09

That's uncommon.

Matthew Brickman: 12:09

Yeah. That's very uncommon you

Sydney Mitchell: 12:12

And maybe I'm remembering incorrectly and it could have been maybe like my sister and I were on my mom for medical and then on my dad for something else. I don't know. So. Alright.

Matthew Brickman: 12:24

Okay. Well, okay. So I'm gonna finish what I was gonna tell you. And then remind me in a second about what you just said about maybe you were on medical for one and something else for another, so, okay. So, um, usually what happens is one of the parents is going to ensure the children because Sydney, that is a factor of child support. Right? So, so let's say for example, that dad is going to provide the insurance. And let's say that he's spending$600 a month for his and the children's we have to find out. So usually they have to contact HR and find out, well, what would it be for just you? And then what is it for everybody? Then we subtract that out. We know the kids' portion because that

Sydney Mitchell: 13:07

Definitely people to do with them together.

Matthew Brickman: 13:09

That's actually factored in child support, because then there is a contribution from mom to the medical insurance, for the child or children, and it's factored in its pro rat portion and child support. So usually it's one parent that's covering that. I have had it where, for example, and this is what you were just talking about. We're like, maybe they're on dad's medical insurance and mom's dental and vision. I've had that.

Sydney Mitchell: 13:39

Yeah. And maybe that's what it was. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman: 13:41

Maybe that's what I've had that still all of that would go into the child support calculation. Um, but usually like one parent is covering, um, the medical dental envision. It goes into the child support calculation. And then as you're saying, like accident prone, right? Mm-hmm<affirmative> so then there is a section and we've talked about this. So go back, you listeners, go back and listen to, when we talk about the child support section of the mediation agreement, there is a section for reasonable and necessary, uninsured, unreimbursed, medical, dental, optical, ophthalmic, psychological orthodontic prescription costs, where then those, those surprises that it's not just your monthly, you know, insurance number, but those deduct, you know, deductibles or those cos or whatnot, then those are split between mom and dad based you it's either 50, 50, or it is based on their pro Ratta share. Um, and we talked about that in a previous episode of how that's done mm-hmm<affirmative> but usually it's one parent that's doing it. Um, there is no right.

Sydney Mitchell: 14:52

I've said that and we've talked about it. It, I feel dumb, but Hey, I'm sure somebody's done it at some point. So if that's you listener you're welcome.<laugh>

Matthew Brickman: 15:02

Yeah. I mean, we're always here to recap and remind, right. Recap and remind. Yes. Um, so hopefully for that particular person that answers the question and maybe even a little bit more information than what they were looking for, for who pays for

Sydney Mitchell: 15:17

Yeah. Sorry. I took that on a little bit of a rabbit trail, but

Matthew Brickman: 15:19

Yeah, well, but you know what, it, it was sort of open ended that led to us sort of trying to interpret for exactly what they were wanting to know.

Sydney Mitchell: 15:27

Sure. Well, Matthew, thank you so much for your insight, uh, on that topic that is extremely helpful. Uh, and I look forward to answering some more of these questions with you very soon,

Matthew Brickman: 15:38

Occasionally Sydney and I will be releasing Q& A bonus episodes where we will answer questions and give you a personal shout out.

Sydney Mitchell: 15:45

If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com that's info@ichatmediation.com and stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show.

Matthew Brickman: 16:01

For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me, either in person or using my iChatMediation Virtual Platform built by Cisco Communications. Visit me online at www.iMediateInc.com. Call me at 561-262-9121, Toll-Free at 877-822-1479 or email me at MBrickman@iChatMediation.com.