Interview with Ginger Gentile - Director of Erasing Family - Part 2

Ginger Gentile is best known for directing "Erasing Family", which exposes the trauma children suffer when a loving parent is erased from their lives after divorce, a problem facing 22 million families in the US alone. The film was made after a nearly half a million crowdfunding campaign and is currently streaming. Ginger has also been a guest on Red Table Talk.

Prior work includes directing "Erasing Dad" (Borrando a Papá) and Goals for Girls: A story of Women with Balls (Mujeres con Pelotas). Both are feature documentaries that focus on gender stereotypes and "Erasing" was the most talked about documentary in Argentina, the country of its production, in 2014 and made front page news as attempts were made to censor it.

If you have a matter, disagreement, or dispute you need professional help with then visit iMediate.com - Email mbrickman@ichatmediation or Call (877) 822-1479

Matthew Brickman is a Florida Supreme Court certified family and appellate mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. But what makes him qualified to speak on the subject of conflict resolution is his own personal experience with divorce.

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You're Not the Only One - The Agony of Divorce: The Joy of Peaceful Resolution

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ABOUT MATTHEW BRICKMAN:
Matthew Brickman is a Supreme Court of Florida certified county civil family mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. He is also an appellate certified mediator who mediates a variety of small claims, civil, and family cases. Mr. Brickman recently graduated both the Harvard Business School Negotiation Mastery Program and the Negotiation Master Class at Harvard Law School.

Transcript

Mediate This! Podcast: 0:00

Hi, my name is Sydney Mitchell. Hi, I'm Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

Matthew Brickman: 0:10

Thanks for joining us this week as we conclude our conversation with Ginger Gentile. When we had left off, we were talking about child support, and now we're going to talk about kids testifying and more

Ginger Gentile: 0:28

Talking to kids who have testified in court. It's awful. They say it's the most traumatic thing in their lives. They feel guilty for years, even when their parents, you had a lie. I know , um, that you , that , um, you were being told to say things that you were feeling pressure. And we have a judge in the film who says, I stopped asking kids to testify because they, the parent who brought them to court was the one that they would testify in favor for. Yeah. Kids were writing for letters saying that they felt pain as adults. And I was talking to a daughter now who reunited with her mom, living with her mom, and when I asked her about court, she just begins to cry. And she goes, I feel so bad for what I did. I'm like, well, has your mom said it's your fault ? She says , it's not my fault. I know that, but there's not a day that goes by that thinks about I'm a liar and an awful person. Yeah .

Matthew Brickman: 1:16

Yeah .

Ginger Gentile: 1:17

She was, you know, she was 11 at the time. Yeah . And it's just really, really , it's , it's , it's really brutal because the courts , um, I mean, if mediation is to have an agreement that both parties can live with or be happy with, ideally courts is about finding a winner and a loser. And one of the messages of erasing family is, we need to work on healing. We need to work on giving people skills, resources if needed, maybe mental health resources, access to mediation, but trying to figure out who's to blame that doesn't , it just perpetuates a cycle that can go on for generations.

Matthew Brickman: 1:50

Yeah. And, and, and so , um, so, you know, knowing, you know, so, so with, with what I deal with what I experienced, what was interesting was when I first read David's book and I'm like, you know, going through all that, I went through and I'm like, I think I wanna become a mediator. I was like, well, I like my kids, but I don't know if I'm gonna have a passion or like anybody else's kids. And so, where I started with my journey was I became, I, I got certified as a guardian ad litem for the courthouse, and I was doing the behind the scenes investigatory work, going and meeting with the parents, meeting with the children, being the voice then of the children doing that. And , um, it was interesting. I mean, you know, ginger, it's interesting when, when, when you go in, you got your badge, you go into their home and you go into mom's home with the child, and the child is sitting there with mom and you , you talk with the child, child keeps looking over to mom before they answer or dad. And so then what I would do is I'd be like, okay, well, you know, can you show me your room? So they'd show me the room and then they'd go there, and then you get 'em , and then you still have the conversation. It's a different conversation. I can tell it's a different conversation. And, and so, you know, then you get some of that. Then, I mean, and as, as a guardian ad litem, I've got unfettered access. I can pop in at school, pull 'em outta class. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> and talk to 'em , talk to, you know, I mean, and Sue really get, get the information. The last case that I did, it was a relocation case down to The Bahamas. And I went down to The Bahamas. I flew down to The Bahamas, met with the mom, the dad and their home, or mom and , uh, her new husband , uh, went to the schools 75 page report to the , to the judge. Wow . Um , but I went through all the, all the best interest factors in the state of Florida. Here's all the different factors, here's everything. And did an analysis between really two different countries. Yeah. Gave it to the judge, and you know what? The judge took it in part and created then their own. And the family has been fine ever since. And it was a , it was a , it was one of the good outcomes. Um , but it's so nice when there's happy endings. Exactly. I mean, had had a great happy ending. The kids are doing well, the parents are doing well. After covid , even the mom and her husband, they , they ended up doing a , a change of custody because the kids were having issues with schooling down there on the island because of stuff. And so they were able to co-parent, make sure that the kids stayed at the forefront. And the next thing I know, the kids are with dad, not with mom. And I'm like, what's going on? And they're like, oh, well we did this for the kids. I'm like, thank God. But there was, now I started out as their mediator, and it was like, even in mediation, it was this , this tug of war . And they said, we are gonna need a guardian ad litem. Do you know anyone? I'm like, I do guardian work. And they, they already had a rapport with me as a media said , we want you as the mediator, and I mean, sorry, as a guardian ad litem. And so it had a phenomenal outcome. Every , I mean, it turned into a win-win where the judge didn't have to make the final decision and tear the parties apart. Like you said, there's a declared winner and a loser. It created a win-win where they both had a say in it. They both had input. And so, you know, that was where I started as a guardian ad litem then became a mediator. Um, and, and like, like you were saying, you know, there, there are times where the, the time sharing might be the emotional. And , and , and I found what I have found as a mediator and as a guardian ad litem , like you were alluding to, like, they go back and talk to the ex-boyfriend and the ex-girlfriend and the family members and the former, you know, in-laws, of course they're gonna have garbage to say. Right. I mean, even , even in yesterday's mediation, you know, they're bringing up things from five years ago. And I'm like, wait a second. You guys were in an intact marriage. Nobody had even filed for divorce and now you're trying to use that as ammunition. Are you kidding me? That's like, not even within arm's reach, but, and I , and I , and , and the father, the father goes, look, Matthew, I'm not the same man that I was. You know, I've been doing therapy and I, I, I started going to church. I, I've learned, you know, I took anger management. He goes, did I do things? Yes. Did I say things? But that's not who I am today. You know, it's almost like somebody going to jail, being rehabilitated and coming out, but they're still labeled.

Ginger Gentile: 6:18

Right, right. So, Matthew, looking, thinking about the erasing family film, what story stuck out to you about someone who rehabilitated himself? 'cause it's fresh in your mind, because I know you watched it this morning.

Matthew Brickman: 6:28

Yeah . So, so I mean, I , I don't remember like the , the , I , I don't know, I guess the main guy who was the barber I identified with him, because prior to doing this I did hair as well. So I had this connection with him. Yeah . So I'm like, I know his world. That was my world. I was estranged from my daughter for only a year, but I was estranged from my daughter. So I really connected with him because I understood the estrangement from the daughter when he then went back and adopted. Now, what was interesting was , uh, and , and I know you don't dig into that and get into it in depth on that Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , but it triggered me a bit because there were two people in there that signed over their parental rights for an adoption. And it's like,

Ginger Gentile: 7:17

Yeah, let's talk about that. So for the people who are curious about what we're talking about in the film racing family, I follow a few families in death . And one is dizzy. Who, he's a biker. He looks like a biker. He looks like a tough dude. He's awesome , but he's a sweetheart. He's a teddy bear. But that image doesn can help him in , in court also being the dad. And, and the judge at one point says to him, the mother's the caregiver. You're the financial support and being some of that , a lot of money. Yeah. He, he basically begins to work underground. This child support , uh, piles up and he doesn't see his daughters for years. And at one point the mother brings them back and he's so happy. And the , she goes , look, I know you're study , you're struggling with child support. I have an idea. If you say you're no longer their father, they're adopted by their stepfather, you don't have to pay child support anymore. Yeah . And , um, nothing will change. And Dizzy says, you know, with a lot of regret, he signed his rights away. He then didn't get to see the daughters. He still had the child support debt. And his daughter, Ashlyn, who's a lovely young woman who's been through so much trauma , um, she was homeless at one point when her mom kicked her out. But her, but her dad couldn't look for her because he was no longer the, the legal guardian. So it would've been kidnapping of his own daughter. Um, she said she had to go to court and testify , uh, that she wanted to live with her stepdad. And she felt really bad 'cause it was a lie. But everyone just told her she had to go along with this when she was 10. And kids. And when I work with parents, because now I work with parents to reverse parental alienation, reconnect with their kids, I often explain to them that for children, this is very different than for adults. Love is often safety, survival, economic resources, a house food, and they will align with what will keep them safe. We, as adults, we can balance, oh, I , I love my grandmother, but she's kind of annoying, so I'll go see her. We can do that. Yeah . Kids are like, well, if I don't go with the program, I have no food. That's what their brain is wired to think. Right . And also, some parents will actually threaten, well, you'll be homeless , you'll be kicked outta the house. And Ashton talks about how bit by she gets pushed out the maternal family for not wanting to go along with the program until she eventually runs away and then eventually reunites with her dad. But it's, it's one thing that I found in my research is that , is that this can happen more often where parents sign off, sign away their rights , um, one because they feel like there's nothing left to do. They're , they're emotionally broken, they're financially broken. Two , I've talked to a lot of dads and there's a lot of stories not in the films, in the film erasing family where , um, they never got notified. I met with one dad who's like, the day of court there was a blizzard they didn't postpone. And they're like, well, you're a no show . You obviously don't care for your kids. Um, they go to wrong addresses. Like there's very little research because in the US stepparent adoption is considered a good thing. Um, in other cultures, this is considered wackadoodle. You can change guardianship, but changing because, and this is also something where I didn't know until I did the film, when you get adopted, your birth certificate changes. Yeah . Um, but a lot of people dunno that I've actually talked to lawyers who accused me of lying. And I'm like, it's, it's in the film. I saw the birth certificate. And then we have another young man who's, and I've seen this quite a few times too, and this is just to me cool . Where a child is adopted after the age of 18 as kind of the final knife in the parents' art. And we have a scene where the mom, you could tell this , he went along with this 'cause he was like 19. And she's like, here's your birth certificate. Look, it says, I'm your mom. Yeah . It's like, I'm a teen mom because she was younger. And then she goes, it's like your whole past never happened. Yeah. And people,

Matthew Brickman: 11:07

That was the guy in Florida actually.

Ginger Gentile: 11:09

That was the guy in Florida. Yeah . And um, what's interesting there with, with, with adult adoptions of stepchildren is that it's very easy to do because they're an adult and it's usually designed to really hurt the parent who's the biological parent. Because now it's like, now, you know, 'cause then they go on social media, like finally I was adopted. And I don't think judges really realize the importance of identity. And especially as we learn more about epigenetics, we learn more about generational trauma, the importance of knowing your family roots. We're seeing a big adoption movement of adoptees demanding to know their biological parents all over the world. That I think this is something that's not talked about a lot. And , um, and then what's interesting too is with Ashlyn and Dizzy, they reverse the adoption, but then she gets adopted by her stepmom. And when you look at that whole family tree, it's full of stepparent adoptions. And one thing I've learned doing this work and making racing families that this is generational trauma. Yeah. And when I talk to parents , um, who have gone through this, and it might be 10, 20 years since they've seen their kids, I often ask, where else do you see this in your family system? Where else did your ex experience this? And there's always multiple stories. Occasionally you get someone who's just blindsided by this and was just bamboozled by like a narcissist. It does happen. But in most cases, like, well, my mom didn't, didn't see her dad, so I married someone who also , whose mom didn't let her see her dad. And, and, and this is important, especially if they're gonna go to mediation and work with someone as wonderful as you. This is my advice to all the parents. If you have someone who's alienating, and it's not just, I want some more child support, but it's really deep rooted , they're , they don't act logically because they're acting out a trauma response. Sure. And we see this with parents who, like, I've seen cases where the mom will cash the child support checks and you're like, this is weird. They try to get the other parent fired and you're like, well, that's your child support. This is weird. Yep . Um, they might end up in jail. Um, I've seen lawyers who've alienated who the judge is like, I'm gonna get you suspended from the bar. Yep . And that doesn't stop them . And it's because the trauma response is so deep. So if you try to say, look, you're hurting the kids X, y, z, they often don't listen to that. So you have to appeal to make them feel safe and secure in that situation, which I teach some parents that might be always saying, that's a great , great idea. Let's talk about it. I understand where you're coming from. I'm here to work this out. And not confronting them , um, giving them two options to pick from. I mean, you know, this stuff, but what people often do is, like, I wrote my excellent letter that alienation is really bad and I say three studies about the psychological damage and like, they don't care. They're winning. And now they know you care and they're gonna alienate more because you're hurting. Right. Well , and so you have to, you have to really understand that the person in front of you when you negotiate and mediate Yeah . They , they're not, they're , they won't respond to logic. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman: 14:14

And I see that a lot . And , and , and what I, you know, in Florida, again, the law in 2011 change to where parents actually do not have rights to their children in a divorce or a paternity action. They no longer Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . So it's interesting. So my daughter got married three years ago, and when she went to the courthouse and got her marriage certificate application and then got the book that you get that talks about marriage and stuff, she calls me, she's like, dad, it says in here that parents still have rights to their kids. I'm like, Cassie, no they don't. Well, they, the court has still has not updated the book with, because that's not the statute. So the statute in the state of Florida actually reads it is the public policy of this state that each minor child has frequent and continuing contact with both parents after the parent separate or the marriage of the parties is dissolved. And to encourage parents to share the rights and responsibilities and joys of childbearing. Now brand new as of July to 2023 , uh, so last year, unless is otherwise provided in the statute or agreed to by the parties, there is a rebuttable presumption that equal time sharing of a minor child is in the best interest of the minor child. And so what's interesting is when people come in, they said , well, you know what, I'll give him time or I'll give her time. I'm like, it's not yours to give your child's entitled to both of you, but thank you for playing. Yeah . And so then I've

Ginger Gentile: 15:46

Seen that, I've seen that right now in a case I'm working on where the mom is like, I think you're a narcissist dad. I was like, well one, you can't <laugh> you can't go around diagnosing other people narcissism. Why one's you're a narcissist. Um, and she goes, so until you do all this therapy and stuff, you can see the kids maybe once a week. They haven't gotten divorced yet. And she's very clear that she's trying to set precedent with this. And it's like she doesn't have rights to the kids. There's been no ruling. Yeah . No, nothing. And I also was like, even if you are a narcissist, there's no law. This is narcissists can't see their kids. Yeah . Like she's just making, but what people do is they believe the other person, often, I've seen this so much where the person where one parent says, you're gonna have to pay me 80% of your salary and child support, you're gonna see the kid once a week. You're gonna do this. I'm just like, they're making stuff up. But people are so emotional. They say, they're threatening me. They're gonna do this. I'm like, well, they're saying words. Yeah .

Matthew Brickman: 16:41

Yeah .

Ginger Gentile: 16:41

They're saying words designed to provoke an emotional response so that when you go to mediation or court, god forbid it was flowed, you cry. Yeah . And everyone goes, wow, there must be something off with this. Wow. They're , and then the , they're crazy. The alienated pieces is just cool as a breeze looking so nice, bringing everyone muffins. Everyone's like, oh, what a nice person. The person who can't see their kids is crying or upset. And then people go, well, maybe there's something to this. So the big challenge that people have in these situations is controlling their emotions. And it's super hard because what people love more than anything on the earth is their kids. And when they can't see them and they're being accused of stuff, it's a natural reaction. But that natural reaction have major consequences. And we also see that in the film era , family where Dizzy says some things that he wasn't proud of. Um, the mom whose kids get adopted, she's an emotional wreck. Yeah. Yeah. In the film, she's, you understand why though, but like, she's an emotional wreck and she was, I asked her and everybody was she ever accused of anything and she was never accused of anything. Yeah. But just this kind of ongoing , um, you know Yeah . Campaign. It , it affects a person. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman: 17:53

'cause like you said, like if you're dealing with a narcissist or you're dealing with someone that's with parental alienation, I can't come in here start exposing, I can't diagnose. Right? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Um , because, you know, also they're , you know , they need to feel comfortable. So I do two things. First off, I say, look, let's read the statute. This isn't me. This is just the law in the state of Florida. The child's entitled. So are you looking for protection or are you looking for prohibition? Because it's a double-edged sword and a very fine line. It's not yours to prohibits. So if there's issues, this is the form we can build in all the protection, you tell me what's going on, we can address it. The court may not address it like the way we can here in mediation. So tell me what's going on. Give me the information and then I can help you. But this is still happening. Either way it's gonna happen. Come easy, come hard. It's, it's happening. But tell me that way again, we're not, I'm not alienating. I'm going, what's going on? What are your fears? What are your hesitations? How can we address this? And I've got a , I've got a whole document that I just keep on tapping in in my folder called child safety. Sometimes we need to build in safety rules for the parents to protect the children.

Ginger Gentile: 19:07

A lot of like accusations. You can't co-parent with a narcissist. And I tell people, you can work with a narcissist. Yeah . But they need as clear rules. Exactly. They need. Um, I was, I trained with Bill Eddie of the High Conflict Institute. Okay. And he, he teaches something where most people get put into family therapy. And what a lot of these families need is a more of a coaching paradigm with very clear rules that they need to follow almost checklists for borderlines and narcissists. That they don't feel threatened that they're gonna lose their kids 'cause they can't have a violent reaction. And , um, sometimes narcissists marry each other too. Yeah . So I've seen that. I I've seen that where like, where like I've had, I don't say this to parents, but there's been cases where I'm like, you're both alienating the kids. Your ex is better at it. Yeah,

Matthew Brickman: 19:53

Yeah. You,

Ginger Gentile: 19:54

You , you are like , you're just not as good because they wanna destroy the other person. Yeah. They wanna get the kids, they wanna upset. I was like, I wanna see her in jail. Yeah . And I have to explain that in civil court, you people don't go to jail.

Matthew Brickman: 20:05

I wanna hurt this one. And the other one is , I want this one to die. They're two different extremes, but it's still, I'm gonna do, I'm , I'm still gonna talk negative. I'm still gonna poison the, well I'm still gonna try to alienate one of the other things that Florida did, which I've, which I have seen a, as a mediator, I've seen a huge shift since the, since they did this. I think it was in 2019, I think it was January, 2019 in the statute. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , they , um, changed or, or they, they , they , they changed. It's Florida statute section 6 1 1 3 , which is the family law section and then subsection two B three A and what it says there. So, you know, actually let me , let me back up. Prior, like if kids are having issues, you know, e even if there's shared parental responsibility and decision making , okay, well if the child needs therapy, well do you think that the alienating parent is going to agree 'cause they're gonna get exposed? No. So the child can't get the therapy that they're needing to survive this situation because under shared parental responsibility and decision making therapies, doctors, schools have to be agreed upon. So that was always an issue. And so I , I mean I I just saw a , a big uptick of alienation. Subtle, like you said, subtle where I wanna hurt you two , I want you to die The extreme until about 19, after 19, I've seen a decrease. Because what they did in the law is, is it says either parent pursuant to Florida statute may consent to mental health treatment for the children. This in no way modifies the precepts of shared parenting. So as long as they have shared parental, and as long as this statute is referenced in their parenting plan, either of them can unilaterally get mental health treatment for the children. Then under the mental health treatment section of the statute, if a child at the a at the age of 13 desires their own mental health, they can do it without either parent's consent. Interesting . And that's been huge to help with the parental alienation because it used to be they were hiding because they couldn't be found out because they're just gonna say, no, I don't agree to therapy and you can't get a third person in there to help. And I'm going, how selfish and self-destructive that you don't want your kid to get help to survive this divorce, this trauma that they say is worse than death.

Ginger Gentile: 22:45

Right. The alienator will often , um, repeating their trauma patterns to see the child as a pawn, as an extension of them or something that hurt the other parent. Yeah . And that's why we can't appeal to like, this will help the kid. This is in their best interest. It has to be very subtle to get them on board . Yeah. Um, I've also coached Alienators. Okay . Um, when they've been court ordered to get coaching and , um, with that, instead of saying, trying to convince them that the other parent is good or this is hurting the kids because I know they won't really care. It's more like behavioral changes and saying, okay, we've gotten this far, how long have you been in court? Eight years. The judge has declared you. And they'll say, the high conflict parent. And I'm no longer allowed to bring court case . I'm like, so how much money has this cost ? Like, oh God, how much time? Oh God, is there something you'd rather be doing? And it's like, but the kids, they don't like going to dad's. I'm like, well, do you ask them? Do you not like going to dad's? Like, oh, I always say it must be awful to go to your dad. I'm like, okay. So we're priming. So changing the behavior of the parent. Um, but they, they will do that if it's court ordered . Right. But not saying, look , I think the other parent's a great person. I think that, you know, your kids need both. Here's some research on that because they won't care. But kind of their own interest of like, the gig is up, no one really cares anymore about your fake complaints. I wish that happened more often. Yeah. Um, I'm so happy that Florida's making some strides and I hope that other states can follow. What often happens though is that, you know, we can get into court orders that are unfollowed and then it's very, for some parents, it can be expensive for time consuming to get , go back to court. That a lot of states there isn't like some fast track. Like the kid just never goes to visitation, never gets, goes to the custody exchange. Um, the cops don't wanna get involved police . I'm not saying that that's the solution. Yeah . But your parents go to the sheriff. The sheriff said this is a civil matter . The civil matter that then the would say, call the sheriff, call your attorney. Um , call your attorney. It , it's this loop. So what I'm seeing is that the more we can talk to people about how this is a trauma response on both sides of the family, that the kid is half of both, that reducing the conflict is healthy and here are skills because you can lessen conflict with a high conflict individual by changing the way you communicate. And everyone who I work with, well almost everyone says this will not work. Yeah . On my ex is my ex is crazy. And, but if you try it number one consistently, which means a hundred percent of the time, you can't then go back to like you're an alienator. But really doing it consistently. I've seen, I I have one dad I worked with who didn't see his kids for about a year. Um, mom wouldn't let him on the , um, what's it called? The gated community. Like he wasn't allowed to get into the gated community to pick up his kids like that level.

Matthew Brickman: 25:39

Yeah . He wasn't on the authorization list. Um ,

Ginger Gentile: 25:42

And by changing his tone with his ex from , he stopped sending letters of why won't God open your heart? And you repent and you're an alienator. And this is hurting the kids to being polite, being firm , um, information based , not asking but informing. He now has a relationship with his teenage sons. It's a great relationship and here's the best part that hurt him, but I'm happy about. The mom says, it was my idea that you all reunite. And he comes to me and goes, she's the alienator. I say, you're gonna take this win and let her believe this is her idea and you're gonna thank her for being so smart. Sure.

Matthew Brickman: 26:17

Let me ask you this. So I'll

Ginger Gentile: 26:18

Go back to

Matthew Brickman: 26:19

Court . Yeah. So, so, so I wanna talk about , uh, enforcement and stuff in Florida. 'cause they've also, I mean, Florida's been taking some major, major strides , um, which has been good. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Um, so, so lemme ask you this. So in most of the courts, most of the jurisdictions in Florida, when it comes to the parents co-parenting, and I mean first off it's shared parental. So in, in Florida we don't , um, they, in 2011, they got rid of the terms custody, visitation, primary parents , secondary parent, because they said these are , um, these are adversarial terms, they're alienating terms, they're degrading terms. They said no more. So they got rid of 'em . And , and then they said, look, the only people that actually get taken into custody and have visitation rights are criminals, not children. And to label somebody as primary and secondary is adversarial. So in 2011, they got rid of them , they don't exist in the statute. And they said, we have two pieces. We have decision making , we have time sharing . And so decision making , the starting place is shared parental. If it's, if it's not gonna be shared equal decision making , well then you have to have a whole trial on why it's not. Otherwise it is. The other thing is they said it's decision is it's equal , you know, now it's equal time sharing . And so , um, what they do to help the parents communicate is they is, is if the parents can't agree, they make 'em use a third party app, like app closed talking Parents Family wizard , which helps organize the communication to get the enforceability in a court of law and admissible records, which are much easier to follow. The other thing they do is they outline for the judges what is there for enforcement. And so they put that into the statute that says, you know, that if if you break this, then , then the person who didn't do anything is entitled to make up time sharing and reimbursement of attorney's fees . So you're not spending your money to get the other person to comply. And then if you violated or defaulted or you're in contempt, that's then you could be ordered to take an additional parenting course, perform community service or may have the timesharing schedule modified. It gives the court the ability based on what they may have done to then even say you lost your timesharing based on the factors in the statute, which is really good. And so then they also made sure that it's in the statute that in statute 61 , uh, 1 3, 4 A and B that says when you're ordered to pay child support and you fail, then the parent who should have received it cannot refuse to honor the timesharing schedule. And then the next section is vice versa. When you refuse to honor the timesharing schedule, whoever, whoever's rights were violated, they can't stop paying child support. And I noticed that was something in, in , in the documentary as well that they were talk like, like I think the one guy said, look, you know, when she cut it off, I'm like, I'm not paying. Well then they get in trouble. Ginger, I want to thank you again for coming on, but before you go, so let me ask you this. So , um, you do , um, you , you , you had talked about you do some coaching , um, and , uh, and whatnot . So, you know, other than documentary filmmaking and you know, people going and watching the film and being able to just be informed more of parental alienation and , and how it goes. If somebody wants or you know, needs your services, like tell me like where can they find you? What other services do you offer? What's the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Ginger Gentile: 29:59

So I'm very easy to Google. People can Google Ginger Gen Teel . They can Google Erasing Family, which will take them to erasing family.org where they can watch the film for free. We have a ton of resources on that page, like the ki um, the Divorce Kids Bill of Rights, which people can give to their schools. And a lot of parents ask me if the film is appropriate for their children. I would say be careful with that. But definitely for teenagers and young adults it is. And I always advise them to send them the link of the film in a text message or to other kids and then just say, I wanna know your opinion. Not watch it with them. Not say, I think this is about us. And the film is designed to help families heal, especially young adults. So it's designed to create an aha moment to help them reconnect. It's not about blame and it's great to show in schools, law schools, as you said, you want your clients to see it, which is great. And if people wanna work with me, they can find me@reversingparentalalienation.com. I work as a coach to help parents learn the emotional and communication skills to lessen conflict with their exes. Whether they're in a custody battle or it's been 10, 20 years, I help them have better relationships with their kids or reunite if it's been six months and the kids are just really upset and they're refusing again the car to , it's been 10 years since they've seen their kids. And my methodology combines emotional work and communication work. And we have courses on the website too , group coaching. And I work with other coaches who are all like me, kids of high conflict divorce and parental alienation. So one of the few programs where everybody who teaches it went through this as a child. So it gives the parents a unique perspective. And the whole idea is that you don't worry about making mistakes, that you're confident that you're back and your authority as a parent and you're able to give your children the love they need from you now, which might be different than the love you wanna give and to let make sure they're safe and happy. So we end this generational trauma of parental alienation. Thank you so much for having me on your show, Matthew. I really enjoyed it.

Matthew Brickman: 32:05

Occasionally Sydney and I will be releasing Q&A bonus episodes where we'll answer your questions and give you a personal shoutout.

Speaker 1: 32:13

If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com. That's info at iChat I-C-H-A-T mediation.com. And stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show.

Speaker 4: 32:30

For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me using my iChat Mediation virtual platform built by Cisco Communications, visit me online@imediainc.com. Call me at (561) 262-9121 toll free at 8 7 7 8 2 2 14 79 or email me at m brickman@ichatmediation.com.