9. Matthew And His Daughter Cassie Discuss The Struggle Within The Parent Child Relationship (II)

Part 2 and the conclusion of Matthew Brickman and his daughter Cassie's discussion of the struggle within the Parent-Child Relationship in the circumstances surrounding divorce and separation.

As discussed in previous episodes Matthew Brickman and Sydney Mitchell have told their separate personal stories and experiences with divorce and conflict. Both unique and completely different.

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ABOUT MATTHEW BRICKMAN:
Matthew Brickman is a Supreme Court of Florida certified county civil family mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. He is also an appellate certified mediator who mediates a variety of small claims, civil, and family cases. Mr. Brickman recently graduated both the Harvard Business School Negotiation Mastery Program and the Negotiation Master Class at Harvard Law School.

Transcript

Mediate This! Intro: 0:00

Hi, my name is Sydney Mitchell. Hi, I'm Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the mediate, this podcast, where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

Cassie: 0:14

This is Cassie Mullins, and today we're going to conclude the discussion. My dad and I were having regarding our relationship, but we went through what being as strange for a year felt like and how we made it back better than ever. So let's get back to the conversation.

Matthew Brickman: 0:32

All right. So, um, we are back for episode two. I know we left you on a cliffhanger of, Oh my gosh, what did they go through and how did they make it back? So, um, what was interesting was we were still going to, and we were just going to pick up where we left off. So we were still going to church at the same place. We're going to generation church. And I remember that, um, we would see each other at church. We would be like, there was no like modern day social distance. And like, we were almost like, like elbow to elbow. And it was like, Cassie was not there to me. And I was not there to her. And I remember standing there and I was, um, Cassie came up to talk to my wife and I'm standing there with her. And Cassie talked to Mary, Mary, talked to Cassie, I talked to Mary, but Cassie and I didn't talk to, to each other. And it was like, we just looked right through each other. Like we weren't even there. And I remember there was also, um, there was a plywood Regata from Marine, um, high school that you guys will go into beach maritime Academy. And we were down to the pirate of Ghada and Fort Lauderdale. And it was just like, you weren't even there. Like, and, and I mean, and again, I was so hurt. Mine was hurt. Mine was not anger. Um, no mine was angry towards your mother and your grandmother, but not towards you. I was hurt because I felt betrayed for you. Um, and, and, and I'll tell you, honestly, I was so consumed with the hurt, that logic and reason communication, like having a conversation to work it out was not even on the radar because I was just so hurt. And I didn't know how to process it. I did not know because it was such a cane out. Like we talked about last episode, it just came out of the blue. So it wasn't like, okay, we're having struggles, arguing that. Oh, okay. Well now I understand why I didn't understand why, but I was so hurt. I didn't even care to understand why. And it just took forever to process. So like, what was going through your head? Like, you know, when we would see each other or, or whatnot, cause this cause, you know, um, and I'm just going to fast forward to this went on for a year. Like we would see each other at events or different things. And it was like, we weren't even there, like, it was like, it was a ghost of you, but you weren't there. So there's nothing to talk to. So

Cassie: 2:47

Yeah. So for me, you know, as the year went on it, my anger turned into hurt. So,

Matthew Brickman: 2:55

So it's interesting. Your anger turned into hurt and my hurt then turned into anger. That's very interesting.

Cassie: 3:04

Yeah. And so I like, you know, you talked about Pablo regatta and I remember, so at this time I actually, wasn't after very beach chairs having Academy, I pulled myself out of that school. Once I moved out of your house and moved into my grandmother's house and put myself into South fork high school. Cause you won.

Matthew Brickman: 3:25

Yeah. You went from a charter school to a public high school. That's right.

Cassie: 3:29

Yeah. And part of that reason, he was like, aye into me. I feel like I wasn't getting the proper education. It wasn't much of Matthew. Was there anything, it was just for me with my own education.

Matthew Brickman: 3:40

Well, and it was also closer because I was in Jupiter and, and the school was in Riviera beach, but now you're living at Stewart. And so yeah, it was a much further drive, um, to go. And, um, what were you driving like? Cause I, I sold your car. So then, so then what happened on the other side of that?

Cassie: 4:02

So for a little bit, my PR when I was still at, uh, the maritime Academy, um, I, my grandmother and I were sharing her car. And so I, you know, we both had to be down at this cause she was working at the st Mary's hospital, which is right there near the school. And so, you know, we both had been at our places about the same time, so we actually were sharing her car. And then, um, after I was out of school, I had to figure out what to do for like five hours because she didn't get off until like seven. And I got at like at two, three o'clock in the afternoon. So once we made the transition for me from the maritime Academy to self work, um, and everything, my grandmother decided to surprise me with a car. So I had a Hyundai Santa Fe. And so that's what I was driving for for school. And,

Matthew Brickman: 4:56

And was that, was that one of the things that was originally promised like, Hey, if you move up here, I will get your car. I'll do this. I'll do that. Like, without one of the things that originally like, like when the last episode we were done about the proverbial carriage or the, the, the, the promises that were being made was that one of them? Yeah.

Cassie: 5:16

Yeah. One of the Millwoods like, we'll get you a safer car. And, um, so that was one of the things in the car with the 2011, it was, it was a used car, right. It wasn't a brand new shop, a much newer. And so it was a lot safer. And I was cause everything for me was now up in Martin County. So that's why we ended up getting me an SUV, which, you know, in a long time later down, it definitely did help a lot with some stuff. Yeah. So when I, yeah, so

Matthew Brickman: 5:48

You were starting to just get more angry.

Cassie: 5:50

I was looking more current period. Cause by this time I'm like, right. I'm about to graduate school and now a senior at, at South fork high school. And all I wanted, I remembered even say this to my grandmother is like, all I want is my dad. That's all I wanted was you. I wanted you back in my life. I want it.

Matthew Brickman: 6:14

I'm sure. And I'm sure they didn't like that. I'm sure they didn't like that. No,

Cassie: 6:19

They did not. Like all I wanted was my dad.

Matthew Brickman: 6:21

Well, if you look at universities outside of the state of Florida as well, you had gone up to Massachusetts. Right?

Cassie: 6:28

I did go up there for the summer. I got invited for their leadership program.

Matthew Brickman: 6:31

Yeah. And you were looking at that because I remember hearing about that. I think from my grandmother, from Nana, um, because that was about the only communication or anything that I would hear. Cause I guess she was still in contact with her. Um, so talk about the influence. Cause you, you had briefly told me something before we started this, about how Nana had been a big influence. I was like, really? Cause I've never heard that story.

Cassie: 6:57

So my Nana admin, as it is his great his grandmother, she was my great grandmother. And there was a day. I think this was right after your guys is crucial.

Matthew Brickman: 7:07

Okay. Oh, that's right. Okay. So, so yeah, so I had pre-booked uh, because I'm a planner. So I had, pre-booked a Thanksgiving cruise for me and for my wife, Mary and for Matthew and Cassie, we're going to go down to The Bahamas, have Thanksgiving, this all went down after I had bought the ticket and I'm like, Oh no, no, Cassie, ain't go on. We're not even talking. So I invited Nana in your spot, which I was really, really grateful for after that, because I think that was the last vacation Nana got to go on before she got sick and then passed away. And so we were, I was so glad that we got to spend that time with her, even though you didn't get to go. But yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah.

Cassie: 7:49

Yeah. So it was like roughly right before, right after. But I know it was in that timeframe that she invited me to meet her at the garden, small, like here in Palm beach gardens and her and I, and I remember actually at the mall web booth, um, that paradise sat and had lunch and she sat down with me and started to share her story with, um, about her and her daughter, which is your mom, my Tata, um, my dad's mom and kind of their story of being a string because my, uh, Tata and poppy and my dad and his brother were a part of a Colt back in the day and how that put a strain and a distance between Nana and Tata and how she had no communication. And I don't remember how long

Matthew Brickman: 8:39

It was a year. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think I was, I think as the story goes and I could be wrong, I think I was like one and my brother was two and my parents got caught up in a cult and Arizona and my mom escaped with myself and my brother and came and hit in Florida and my dad was still involved and then eventually he got out and they were reunited in Florida, but yeah, it was about a year that they were estranged. Um, I don't remember. Cause of course, you know, and I was one year old, but I've been told this.

Cassie: 9:12

Yeah. Is it as Nana was just sharing with me, like how hard it was on her. And like she wanted to talk to Tata and she couldn't because of what type of this cold. Well, huh. And so she's like Cassie and I remember her leaning our constant table and grabbing my hand and she's like, Cassie, I don't want this for you and your father. I don't want you. You guys had to go through the pain. It was actually longer than a year. Um, and she's like, I don't want you guys to go through, but I had to go through with Tata. I want you guys to have a relationship. I want you guys to have communications with one another. And you know, that really opened my eyes to me of hearing that from her. And you know, she is such a Saint. She is such a godly woman. And you know, I literally, besides God give her like the next price, a lot of credit for our relationship, because then she, cause she even told me that day that she got, she, God woke her up in the middle of the night and told her, write a letter to you because you weren't listening to anybody else. You weren't listening to pastor Ben, Melissa, Jamie, um, uh, Clements. You weren't listening to nobody but Nate, but God knew that you would listen to Nana and she wrote you a letter. And then I don't remember what she says was in the light, but it was something that got you.

Matthew Brickman: 10:36

Well, and I don't, I don't even remember that. I don't have any memory of Nana ever given me a letter. But then again, I don't remember a lot of stuff. I was drinking a lot of mountain Dew back in the day. Um, and that just wiped my memory. Um, what I do remember is I do remember that it, I mean, it was painful. I mean, it was a daily pain. It was not like, well, okay. It was like, it was not going away. It was one of those things that you cannot ignore it. And eventually it will work itself out. You have to go through it, you have to process it or it will always be there and it's, and it just wasn't going away. And I remember, you know, I mean, it just takes a toll on you. I remember one day I went in, I call pastor Melissa and I went in and Melissa wanted to talk to them. Um, and so she, you know, I called her, we were talking, she's like, come, come over. I want to talk to you. So we came over and Melissa was diagramming some stuff about, you know, just what God had was given her as well. And one of the things that was interesting was, you know, I kept going to court constantly because your mother was such a screw up and, you know, giving you guys to me, not showing up for time, sharing, not paying child support, then meddling, afar, you know, part of the brainwashing thing, you know, she had you guys three times, they Gallagher stations at school to school, people that I was abusing you. And we had DCF in the home and you know, uh, we had welfare check, you know, I remember one time we were even, you know, after DCF was there, we went to go pick Mary up and you called your mom and had her on the speaker phone in the back of the car, listening to our conversation. I mean just devious manipulative stuff. It was just so, so wrong. And I remember, you know, I just kept going to court for two reasons. Number one, I was going to court going, look, if I wasn't visiting. And if I wasn't paying my child support, they'd throw me under the jail and forget about me. And so I was like, look, she has to be held to the same standard. The other thing was, I said, I'm going to make a hell of a paper trail because one day, if you guys want, you can go and read and find out everything and see who was actually told the truth. And I was just going to make a paper trail and look, you go to court, you know, pile 43 contempt of court. You've got a hell of a paper trail. I mean, it was thick paper truck. And so I was just going to make paper trail and I just kept going and going. What was interesting that Melissa told me was Melissa said, Matthew, you have spent so much energy focusing on your ex wife that you had raised her up higher than your children and your children are still at the same spot. Looking up to their mother who you have raised because you've spent so much time trying to expose her, instead of focusing on your children, raising them up, educating them, and then they can turn around and look down and see what their mother has been doing. Poisoning the well alienating, everything else. Well that collect because at the time I remember you had gone up to Massachusetts and, you know, cause Nana had told me and it clicked and it was like, wait a second. I have about one year left before your gone. And I was like, okay, enough is enough is enough. Isn't enough. Like what Melissa had told me. And I guess a letter from Nana, it was like something clicked. And I was like, okay, enough is enough. I have one year to teach my daughter who for 17 years had a great relationship. I have one year I have one year to teach you everything I know on how to be a success, how to, how to ironically, how to work through commonplace, how to negotiate, um, and, and you know, to, to empower you so that you can be a success. And so, um, I had been going to therapy, um, on and off for a couple of years. And I remember one of the books that the therapist had recommended called boundaries and you're an avid reader. And so I was, and so, you know, what I felt that God told me is he said, look, I want you to teach your daughter boundaries. I want you to pour into her. And I remember I called you. I think we had like 50 weeks, like just under a year. And I called you up. I said, you know, will you meet me at? And we had talked to like a year and I was like, well, you may be a Barnes and Nobles. Um, and you know, I want to buy you a book and then I want to go out and have dinner. And you were like, okay. And I want to know what your thought process was in a minute. And so we, we, we met at Barnes and noble. Um, it was a stray, it was a very strange meeting. It was, uh, it was really awkward. And then I bought you the book and then we went to Chili's and that was the first time we had talked and about a year. And I remember, you know, it was like, you know, we, we ordered dinner, but really didn't need, because our stomachs are just a mass cause we're just a bumbling nerves. And I remember going, okay, what happened? Like what happened? And you're like, Oh, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know. It was not an answer. It was like, well, you know, you were on me for like taking a shower and washing my hair and eating and exercising. I'm like, that's called parenting. You know? Well, I don't know. And I'm like, I don't know, is that an answer? You know? And so, but that was our first meeting. And so what I told you was, I said, look, you know, I would like to either take you out to lunch or dinner. Um, every week we can read a chapter together and I want to just pour into you, you know? And I, and I said, I said, look, if we meet for an hour a week, basically I've got about 50 hours to teach you everything. I know how to be a success 50 hours. That's not law. I mean, that's, that's what two days, there's 48 hours. That's like two days basically of my life to try to pack into a year. Okay. You know, I teach you everything. How do you success? And so we started doing that. Um, and we would meet at random restaurants and stuff. Um, and we would read boundaries out loud. And I remember as we would go through a chapter, you know, you would read a, set, a paragraph, I read a paragraph. It was fun. And, and, and I remember that you would ask me questions like, Dan, is it possible for like somebody in their thirties to be like this person in the book? I'm like, well, sure. So you could be every age. You're like, Oh my gosh, this is what mom's like. And without me having to say, this is your mother, this is how dysfunctional. This is again, just like Melissa said, when I started to pour into you and educate you, not brainwash, you educate you, let you come to your own realization, your own decisions. And it wasn't that I'm telling you, we're reading a, we're reading a, a, a book recommended by therapists. Um, you know, your eyes are open and then you'd be like, dad, is it possible for like somebody maybe in their like fifties, sixties? I'm like, yeah, it has the, Oh my gosh. Grandma's like this. And I'm like, I remember telling you, I don't know. I haven't even seen her talk to him in a year, but your eyes started to become open to what was, what had happened. And it was that revelation that you started having. And that started us on our journey back. So what was going on for, you know, so, you know, we had gone through that year, you get the phone call, like what was going through your head for like, okay, we're going to Barnes and noble, we're going to dinner, like, you know, the process of getting back.

Cassie: 18:34

So, um, actually we haven't really had a whole full blown conversation about to that point.

Matthew Brickman: 18:41

Just to have the conversation that you said you wanted to have the day that you came to get your stuff here later,

Cassie: 18:46

I was super nervous because I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't know what was going to get said, because I remember our text says, it just says, we're not the nicest between one another. We weren't.

Matthew Brickman: 19:03

Well, and I wanted, I wanted a restaurant because it's a neutral, safe place where I knew, you know, as an 18 year old girl going to see her father that you've been estranged from that you were hurt and stuff. It would be a safe place. Like, like I don't recommend that anybody go like, come over to my house, you know, go to a public place. There there's at least some safety there. Um, where you would feel a little safe. The other, the other reason too, why I wanted a public place and everything was, I wanted you to know that I'm investing in you, even if it's monetarily like a little bit, like I'll buy you a meal right now. I didn't trust you at all. Not one bit like all trusted and violated and gone. I remember that, like, there was no way I was inviting you to the house because I don't know if you know this or not. Um, and I know I cut you off, so we'll come back. But it was probably even after we started to have a relationship and stuff, it was probably about six months to a year before I even let you in the house. Cause I didn't trust you in the house. I just didn't trust you. I didn't, I didn't like, I didn't know if maybe you were still a little mad, a little sad, like you would steal something, break something takes like I did not trust you. We had to start again at zero and start building those levels of trust. And that took a while. I mean, that is not overnight. That is done. You know, I I've, I've always said, you know, the, probably the four scariest words, anybody in any type of a relationship can utter is, Oh, just trust me. Oh, just trust me. You better run. You better run away because trust is built. It is earned. Nobody starts with, you know, me meeting somebody for the very first time. Like, for example, when I got Jefferson right now, I knew who Jefferson was, but let's just say, let's just say that. You're saying, Hey, this is my boyfriend is, you know, whatnot. There's no way that I would give Jefferson the keys to my house and say, Hey Jefferson, here's the keys to my office. Here's the keys to my car. Here's the keys to my house. And if anything starts to be taken, if you destroy something, if you're stealing from me, well, then eventually I'm gonna take my, my, my keys back. That's not how it works. It's Hey, Jefferson, you know, we're going to start to build a relationship and then, Hey, will you house it for, I mean, you've got to build that and all trust had been violated. And so, you know, even though, okay, you lived with me, your entire life had just now I didn't trust you as far as I could throw it. It just wasn't happening. So we went to Chili's or actually we went to Barnes and noble lunch.

Cassie: 21:32

Yeah. And so like, I couldn't understand what the whole thing with the trust, um, things. Um, so, but when I just remember walking into Barnes and noble for the first time and just looking for you and then, um, and then seeing you, I was like, I honestly, I was like, okay, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what's gonna go down. I don't know. What's going to be said, but I, I remember praying about him, like God here, even though I was, um, away from the church for a year, um, because I thought I fell at the same. I felt like a lot of people were favoring you. Um, and so I, and there was other stuff that just made me just leave the church forever,

Matthew Brickman: 22:11

Actually, which, which actually is interesting. Nobody was favorable. Everybody's going, you need to knock this off. Like everybody's twice, like you had the wrong voices and making the wrong choices. I had the right voices and I was still choosing to make the wrong choices. Like everybody, Ben, Melissa MIRI, Nana, my parents, Erin, Julia, everybody is going, Matthew, grow up, knock it off. Like this is your daughter. And again, I was so hurt. I couldn't, yeah, you had the voices going, I'm good. You don't need a head. You got us. And you're making the Rancho though. Right. Voices. And I'm rejecting those and making the Rogers, which is interesting because again, I start with hurt and to anger, you go from anger into her, you had the wrong voices, wrong choices, the right voices and wrong choices. I mean, you know, and so, you know, I think that's hope and encouragement for our listeners because there is no right or wrong way to do it. Like we are human beings and we react differently. We have different perspectives and you know, it's like, how do you get through this?

Cassie: 23:15

And so I would say, I used to get it. I remember just praying about my God. I know you and I are far right now, but I just need you to show up more than anything. Great. Now this is what you are wanting because I am, this was in February of 2015, I'm graduating in may of 2015 from high school. I'm about to go into what my rest of my life is going to be like. So God, I need you to show up in a way. And this was something I was like praying in my mind. And he showed up and again, 50 hours, you know, an hour a week for him.

Matthew Brickman: 23:48

Well, the, we actually did longer than that because, because remember I made, like

Cassie: 23:52

There was some way to be, did two chapters. Sometimes we did watch chapter.

Matthew Brickman: 23:55

Yeah. And, and yeah, I mean, it, it turned out cause, you know, in theory it was like, yeah, let's go for an hour. You cannot read a chapter back and forth in an hour. And they were basically like two, two and a half, maybe even three hour sessions. Um, and we, and again, we, we were very respectful on the, on the places that we went to, that we weren't going to restaurants where we would tie up a table where then the waitress was losing money and stamps and stuff. And so, you know, that was one thing too, though, that just, you know, in a different mindset, just trying to be respectful, like, okay, if we're gonna be here for like two or three hours, either a we're tipping her really, really well, or we're going to go to a place where they've got tons of tables where we're not take it away from because we are going to be here for awhile. And we always, I don't know if you remember, we always told the waitress, Hey, we're going to be over about two hours or so just check on us and occasionally just keep the drinks coming. But other than that, you know, we're fine. You know, you don't have to keep checking back on us that way.

Cassie: 24:47

You're watching one of my favorite memories. Dad, I don't know if you remember, this is of us reading boundaries is when you cause our passes, we're about to go up at universal and islands of the venture. And this was our very first trip, um, of just you and I had been up to universal and islands and adventure.

Matthew Brickman: 25:04

Yeah, I think so. That was one of the Harry Potter had yes,

Cassie: 25:06

I think it was doggin Ali. So yeah. So Hoffman was already opened up. Islands is a dab finale was opening up at universal studios.

Matthew Brickman: 25:13

I forgot that. That was towards the end of, uh, that was, that was towards the end of it. I mean, I mean, I've, I've got, I'm thinking in my mind right now that the pictures of us out there, but yeah, I guess,

Cassie: 25:24

But if, uh, the butterbeer ice cream, like, Oh my gosh, we can't have ice cream. And then, um, cause we did listen to boundaries. I've actually listened to quite a few chapters because of that nice drive that we have. But then, but then,

Matthew Brickman: 25:36

Oh, that's right. That's right. Because yeah, we were reading it, but then I had also gotten the audio book. So we were listening to it up there, you know, about two and a half hour drive. You can get a lot of listening to it. I love audio books, so yeah. Oh, sorry. I forgot about that.

Cassie: 25:50

And, but I, one thing I loved about reading boundaries with you and you kind of hidden hinted on it is that there were practical areas, whatever chapter you were in or whatever sentence we were reading it, we weren't just sharing about, Oh, like, Oh, this is so mom, this is so neat. But you were sharing the boundary list live that you had and that people are like, Hey, you need to help put boundaries. And so it gave me a more of more tools in my tool belt. And I had an idea because of boundaries, I got to, um, help. Do you have any subs and backed up with some of my friends, with the car, with the whole car jive. And so it wasn't just like opening my eyes to my mom and my grandmother, that situation. And you know, my, um, not the same. He was my ex cause I learned in a season within he loved and fed on the drama. When there, when you and I started getting relationship back together,

Matthew Brickman: 26:45

He didn't like it. Well, what I remember that was the entire intent behind doing boundaries was it was not to pit you against your mother and your grandma like that. Wasn't the intent. The intent was again, I was like, all right, Cassie is going to be going away and I need to give her the tools so that she can be successful. And what I have found with just people in general is on, I recommend boundaries to everyone. Yes. Because everybody needs boundaries. I mean, we live basically in a boundaryless society. We live in boundaryless relationships. And so, you know, it was a tool that I wanted you, you know, especially as a, as a young lady, I was like, I want my daughter to be able to set up boundaries and relationships that have boundaries and work so that you could find success so that you can be healthy. And, and, but I remember that, we talked about like, okay, when you set these up, I remember I told you do not set one up with your mother and grandmother immediately like start small. And so you did, you started with the girls in your car pool. And when you started there, I remember the stories that you would share with VAT, which was really good. But I remember telling you don't start with your mom, but remember in the book it says, don't start big, start small, and then you can start going from there. And um, so, so we made it through the year. We're now on the path of, of getting things. And so there were things that we had to do just, you know, throughout life, as life happened, we're like, is that okay? We went to universal and then it's like, okay, well maybe you would come over for dinner or maybe we would do something. I mean, it took a while. Um, so what was interesting was, you know, you ended up right up there now remembered you went into, you, went to the courthouse and actually pulled the documents. Yeah. Yeah. Because I remember you came to me one day, you said, dad, you know, I don't know who to believe because you were like, you know, you're getting fed stuff from your mother, but then you're getting boundaries from me and are there, I told you do not believe me, do not believe your mother go to the courthouse, pull the documents and find out for yourself. And I remember you did. And you came back and said, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I was lied to all of those years. And I remember I told you, Cassie, you know what it is, what it is. Just forgive it and walk away. Let's just move forward because I didn't want to rehash all of that with you and cause problems in with you and your mom and your grandmother and man, your mom and, and all of that. And at that point, you're, I mean, I think when you did that, your brother was about to emancipate or he's gonna turn 18. He was still in high school. And he came to me and said, dad, I want to go live with mom because your mom had relocated back out here. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me, like all over again. But with him, he came to me. So I said, okay buddy, how's this gonna work? And so having, and your mother and I set up the boundaries of how the transition was going to work, like, okay, you're not taking the leased car that I got you. You're not taking your cell phone. You know, and we set these rules up and I was like, okay, he still has to go to maritime Academy. He still has to do this. And so your mom and I set up the rules for that. And we were able to successfully do that. Now, fast forward, you know, he was 18, he's now 22. He's still living with her. Um, and, um, and, and, and him and I are in therapy together, you know, I mean, you and I have a great relationship. Um, and you know, my area and I have a great relationship, but you know, your brother and I being in the, he is still getting the wrong voices and wrong choices. I'm like, look, you know what I told him? I said our relationship. Yeah. Well, cause he actually had said therapies like, Oh, you and Cassie are so tight. You guys are. And I said, yeah, we went through hell to get there. But I told them, I said, you know what? You're, you were priority. I will do whatever it takes to get my relationship with you. Good. As well as we're working on that. But you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, regardless of the age, like, you know, and him and I don't have to go to therapy now he's 22. Like there's no parenting plan. Doesn't matter. He's still my kid, you know? And what's interesting. Um, one of the Mo one of the most amazing, I was just going to wrap this up in a moment. One of the most amazing revelations I had was last year, when you got engaged and you had your engagement party. And I remember we were over at Todd and Julie's house and like, how many people do you have there? Oh my goodness. That hundred plus 50[inaudible] there were so many people there, but Mary and I were there. And I remember sitting out on Todd and Julie's back porch and you and Jefferson were just so excited and happy and people are coming in and you guys are greet people at the door and everyone is just having a great time. And Mary and I are sitting out there and your mom and your grandmother were not there. And, and I said to Mary, I said, you know what? I lost a year, but I gained

Speaker 3: 32:03

Lifetime and

Matthew Brickman: 32:07

They gained a year, but they lost a lifetime. And I said, it was worth it as difficult as it was, as bad as it was, as painful as it was. What has been amazing is I've been able to share the story of mediation for years. And I know that you've been able to share this with teenagers, parents and stuff as well. And going back, I would not change a thing. I wouldn't change anything because it has, it's a story that we've been able to share that has impacted people, giving people hope, giving people, um, the empowerment to, you know, to, you know, the tools like look there's tools out there. Um, and you know, that was my hopes of, you know, and, and, and aspirations of doing this for people that they could hear this and know, okay, look, there were tools, there are people like, you're not the only one. Like people go through this, but how do you get through it? How do you get back? And, and so, you know what I mean, I wouldn't change any of it because it's made us who we are today. Um, and what was meant for destruction turned into something beautiful, turned into something positive. And yeah, I mean, I might've lost a year, but in the grand scheme of things, like, you know, if I, if I live to 80, 90 years old, fine, I'll also one year, but I got all the rest of it. Um, and, and now here's, what's interesting is, you know, when we started to make it back, I actually pray God, you know, I would like to have my relationship back with Kasey. And he said, no, that was like, what do you mean, no? What do you mean? I can't get my relationship back. He's like, I'm going to make it better. And he did like, it wasn't that. Okay, I'm going to get it back. It was totally restored where it was made even better, like better than, or better than it was prior. Like I thought we had a good relationship prior, but it's even better now. Um, which is just incredible

Cassie: 34:20

Because now if these days I have graduated, um, from college and from a college that I am from university, I'd never thought I would go to and with little to little debt. And it was because of you pouring into me that year,

Matthew Brickman: 34:38

Or I remember having those conversations, you want to do it like a real, real quick. We're going to wrap this up. I remember you wanted to go to university of Tampa. And it was like five times a private school. It's like five times the cost of, and this is, this is just one of those human conversations that I felt like I needed to have it where I didn't say Cassie, you can't do that. But I was like, okay, Cassie. And I remember I said, you can do whatever you want, whatever you want, but let's just look at this because you want it to go, you know, like you, you wanted to go into Marine biology. And so I said, okay, let's, let's go to the United States, census Bureau. Let's look and see what is a Marine biologist make. And then we looked at, okay, well, what do you want to spend for your education? It was like five times the cost to go to university of Tampa and go to a Florida school. And then you would, and then, and then like, it was going to be like$250,000 for your education. And like the most, the Marine biologists made a time. It was like$55,000. I'm like, that's insane. And I remember having that conversation with you, and then you said, well, maybe I'll go on the coast guard. So we were like, okay, look, great. Not a problem. I never said you can't. I'm like, let's, let's look. And so we looked at it, like if you spend a lifetime in the coast guard and you got to the highest rank that you could possibly get, which new women at the time had ever held, it was still like$75,000. Like you're just spend a quarter million dollars. So like 70,000, like, that's just stupid. You gotta be smart about this. And you were, you were, you, you look because we were talking boundaries, you started to look and see that I wasn't trying to control you. I was trying to empower you. And I, wasn't trying to tell you, you know, like we talked in the, in the last episode where I'm not talking down to you, like I'm in charge, you know, dictating, I'm talking to you going, it's purely information. It's an advisory role do with the information, what you will.

Cassie: 36:20

And so like, yeah. So now I graduated with a bachelor's degree with like less than$20,000. Um, and I have, I have an amazing husband, as we mentioned in the first episode, and we have talked about, um, briefly of our engagement and I, and I have an amazing job, but above it all, like I have you back in my life and you have just, I have opened myself to you to speak so much truth so much life because I've seen the fruits of it, of the last, what, five, four or five years now of it. And so I'm like forever. I, again, I think God, and I'm so thankful for our, our story, for our testimony to go and share with families and mediation for me to go share to fame, uh, for, to teenagers and kids and families add in our communities, especially in Christ fellowship as well. So I, again, I give the, all the things and praise to God. I give it, you know, paste to Nana, but I, blah, blah, I give you the thanks for being obedient. Finally, it took, it took a while.

Matthew Brickman: 37:29

I used to always say about me and it's true, I'm getting better. Um, but she used to say, she used to said that, um, that, um, it takes a while, but I always listen to the voice of God and come around. Sometimes it may take a while, but she knows that I will always come around and I, I, I try to get better. I try to be, um, obedience, you know, because, you know, delayed obedience is disobedience. Um, and so I try to be obedient like when God says, okay, Matthew, you need to like, OK, fine. Um, I've also learned, I guess, just learn this when you get older is, you know, pick and choose your battles, but you need to ultimately win the war and you're not going to win every battle in life, but you got to win the war. And how do you win any war? You win the hearts and minds of the children because the children are the next generation. And I remembered, you know, um, and you know, and in conclusion, I remember that you said, Hey dad, you know, I want to be a chain breaker. I want to do things differently. And, and, and, and you have been, I've been watching you with your education and with the choices that you've been making in relationships and stuff is you were on a path to breaking the chains, doing things differently. And that to me, is that hope and peace that I try to impart to people in mediation is that if you win the hearts and minds of the children that will break the cycle, set up a hope and a new future, because you all, as a parent, you always want better for your children than you had. You want a better tomorrow. And the way that it's going to be done is modeling that not dictating it, but modeling it because more is caught than taught. Just like you said, I'm watching, I'm learning more than if I, if I said, Hey, Cassie, you need to, you need to do at a certain point. You're like, stop telling me what to do when I'm not, I'd advise you, but if I'm just modeling it and you're like, huh, well, that seems to be working. I'll do that too. You know, that, and then is, um, leading through servant hood, not through dictatorship. Um, and so, um, yeah, this is, uh, this has been a lot of fun doing this. I hope that you listeners have learned stuff. If you've got any questions or comments for Cassie and I please absolutely either email, um, or leave them in the comment section below. And I hope you enjoy this occasionally Sidney and I will be releasing Q and a bonus episodes where we will answer your questions and give you a personal shout out.

Sydney Mitchell: 39:58

If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com that's info@ichatmediation.com and stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show.

Matthew Brickman: 40:15

For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me, either in person or using my iChatMediation Virtual Platform built by Cisco Communications. Visit me online at www.iMediateInc.com. Call me at 561-262-9121, Toll-Free at 877-822-1479 or email me at MBrickman@iChatMediation.com.