How Does Transportation and Exchange of Children Work in a Parenting Plan?

In this episode Matthew Brickman and Sydney Mitchell talk about arrangements for transportation, pickup and exchange for children being raised in separate household. Matthew and Sydney discusses how the choices made for what essentially is the child's entire childhood are handled in a parenting plan. Discover how useful parenting plans are, how they eliminate all the messy legal terms like "custody", "visitation", "access" and streamline the process of raising children after separation or divorce.

If you have a matter, disagreement, or dispute you need professional help with then visit iMediate.com - Email mbrickman@ichatmediation or Call (877) 822-1479

Matthew Brickman is a Florida Supreme Court certified family and appellate mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. But what makes him qualified to speak on the subject of conflict resolution is his own personal experience with divorce.

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Matthew Brickman
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Mediator 20836CFA
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ABOUT MATTHEW BRICKMAN:
Matthew Brickman is a Supreme Court of Florida certified county civil family mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. He is also an appellate certified mediator who mediates a variety of small claims, civil, and family cases. Mr. Brickman recently graduated both the Harvard Business School Negotiation Mastery Program and the Negotiation Master Class at Harvard Law School.

Transcript

Mediate This!: 0:00

Hi, my name is Sydney Mitchell. Hi, I'm Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

Sydney Mitchell: 0:14

Our next episode of mediate this I'm Sydney sitting here with Matthew, Matthew. How are you feeling today? Doing

Matthew Brickman: 0:20

Good Sydney excited.

Sydney Mitchell: 0:23

Good. Me too. I'm actually particularly excited about today's topic. Um, over the past several episodes we've been discussing, uh, the formulation of the timesharing plan. Uh, what's that what that is like, you know, for two parties to create that agreement. And now today we're going to be touching on the transportation and exchange of the children. You know, who's dropping the kids off where and pick up and all of those things, uh, in detail so that the time sharing plan can be executed. Um, Matthew, I think back to my experience, you know, I was a product of divorced parents. They were divorced when I was very young. And so I lived on a timesharing plan as long as I can remember. And, um, my schedule, I was at my dad's Monday, or I'm sorry, Wednesday, Friday, and every other weekend, which I know at the time was a pretty standard timesharing plan,

Matthew Brickman: 1:12

A little jumbled Wednesday and Friday. That means you had, I mean, you had these transportation issues cause like you're with your dad and you're back with your mom and then you're back with your dad.

Sydney Mitchell: 1:21

Yes. A lot of back and forth. So I'm excited to talk about this today because, you know, as a child growing up with a schedule, it just was so normal to me, you know, there was really no other way of living with family other than, you know, this transportation in exchange on an almost, you know, one to two to three day basis. So I'm excited now, obviously I am an adult don't live that schedule anymore. Um, but I'm excited to understand like the ins and outs of what it's like to decide the schedule, what decisions have to be made. Um, I'm excited to learn like what, what things were my parents towards and what things may be weren't right. Um, so I feel like I'm going to personally get a little insight on like my entire upbringing, um, today, which I'm excited about. But, um, before we get started, Matthew is the transportation and exchange portion of the agreement. Typically a challenging one for many parties to agree upon. I know for me, for example, those exchanges typically happened during, you know, around the school days. One parent would drop me off. The other would pick me up, but then our Friday nights, of course I would transfer from my dad's to my mom's. If I was at my mom's for that upcoming weekend at a specific time. And the same people always drove me. So is this decision making process for many parties, typically a challenging one? What is it like making these decisions with parties regarding transportation and exchange?

Matthew Brickman: 2:46

So the transportation exchange, there's a lot of just standard stuff. Um, the court has their own point of view, which is what, um, I, as a mediator always tell people that whenever you're negotiating any part of this agreement, you always have to be cognizant of what is the power of the court. Like what would a court do? Um, because that gives you a good basis to negotiate, right? So I'm always looking at this from the point of view of what would a court do, but then you're also looking at it from the viewpoint of the statute of what's in the best interest of the child, but you cannot forget the logistics of mom and dad, their schedule, uh, the time that they've created their work schedules, um, are there family members around Isaiah extended family? You know, it takes a village. Um, so, um, in the first section of the transportation section, um, the first couple of sentences, it's just the laws that are there of the DMV. So for example, the child is transported in a vehicle only by a valid license, a valid license and insured driver. So many people look at me like, well, duh, but you'd be surprised at how many people do not have insurance or have a license and they're driving kids around. And so even though the DMV has laws, we have laws in the state for that. We put it in the parenting plan because when it comes to the enforcement of the parenting plan, um, even though there's there's laws for that, you can get a violation of the parenting plan, which then violates, you know, the best interests of the child and also the parenting plan. Uh, the timesharing, if you're not following these rules also, you know, the child has to be placed in appropriate car seat or booster seat. So long as it is age necessary and appropriate. A lot of people look at me like, well, duh, but do you know how many parents let their kids just crawl around the car? I mean, I remember growing up, we had a station wagon, we just crawled all over the front seat in the back seat, all the way to the backpack seat that faced, you know, behind, you know, it folded up, but you know, we live in a different world. Um, and you know, and then the next one is the children are placed in the back seat of all cars or trucks to legally allowed to be in the front seat. Um, we use to get more specific with this particular sentence and say, you know, until the child is 16 or until the child is 65 pounds, because we just made it in the parenting plan, whatever the laws and, uh, the state of Florida were,

Sydney Mitchell: 5:18

That's what I was going to ask you. Are there laws that vary between state to state that would alter this standard, you know, standard rules to the agreement? Yes.

Matthew Brickman: 5:26

So with these three general sentences, I would say no, because every state says you have to have a driver's license and insurance to drive. Every state says that a child has to be in the appropriate car seat or booster seat. And then it, every state says the kids have to be in the back seat of all cars or trucks to legally allowed to be in the front seat. Now, sometimes I get the question of, will I have a two-seater sports car or I have, I have a pickup truck. I don't have the backseat. Well, what I can't transport the children. Well, you have to conform with the laws regarding whatever States. So for example, give you an example, Sydney, I have a 2001 Toyota.[inaudible], it's a two seater, but guess what? Inside the glove box, I can take the key and I can turn off the airbag in the passenger seat so I can put a child or I can put a car seat or booster seat in that seat in accordance with the laws of the state of Florida. Because otherwise I'd be like, well, what, I can never transport my kid because I don't have a backseat. No, you just have to follow whatever the laws are in your state. And so these are just your general. I mean, a lot of people go like that's common sense. Yeah. But we understand common sense is so rare. It should be a superpower. So we actually put it in there right. Then the next sentence, the very next sentence sometimes. And I think you just alluded to this, but sometimes can cause some controversy. So either parents is allowed to designate who may have whomever. They desire to do the exchange. If they're unable to do the exchange themselves, right? The courts recognize it takes a village. Um, you cannot restrict insight. Only the mother or only the father can do the transportation, because what if mom or dad gets married? What their spouse can never transport the children. When we have our grandpa pocket never transport the children, they could never go on a play date with another parent, picking the kids up from school and taking them. Children are hanging out with friends and things like that. And remember, we already went through it a couple episodes back in the very beginning of the parenting plan. We talked about shared parental responsibility and decision making in day-to-day decisions. And it says day-to-day decisions. They parents, the biological parents can make their own decisions regarding day-to-day care and control of the children while the children are in their care without any interference from the other parent. Now, usually when people object to this, it's usually because they don't like the, the other person's significant other and they're simply wanting to restrict. But what I remind them of is if you're going to restrict them, they're going to pull out a list and start restricting you. This goes both ways. This is not a one-way street where one parent can restrict one and that they have carte blanche to do whatever they want. So it's one of those things where, you know, it's like, well, if you want to start restricting just to just, just be cognizant, it can come back on you as well. Or it does take a village. Now the next sentence is there and it's preventative. It's it's to help the parties. So it says at the place of exchange, there's no communication or confrontation, verbal or nonverbal such as gestures between the parents or any designated third party individual. So a lot of parents say what I can't even just say hi, be cordial. You know, ask a question about the kids. Well, I go back to the communication section of the parenting plan that says all communication regarding the child is in writing. So you don't need to be having any conversations in front of the child about the child at the place of exchange, because any, any schedule changes or anything about the child, number one, you don't involve the child in the litigation or in the adult conversations. And number two, it needs to be memorialized. So no, you don't need to be having communication at the place that exchange and definitely not confrontation. And we put verbal or nonverbal because I've heard many stories where like, dad will show up with his girlfriend and then they pick up the kid on the way that they're driving away. Girlfriend flips mom, the bird out the window in front of the kids. Like, no, like no, like grow up, stop being a child. But that this happens. Or, you know, for example, like, you know, dad may send, uh, his girlfriend to pick up, you know, the kids and mom and the girlfriend get into it. Like, and so the next sentence says that the natural parent is responsible accountable for accidental missions of third party individuals who violate the section. So if Dan's going to send his girlfriend and she's going to get into it with mom, dad can be held accountable and we've already talked a little bit about the enforcement clause and we'll get into that probably in the next episode of, okay, what is the enforcement of all of this, everything that we've gone through in this parenting plan so far and the stuff we still have left, what's the enforcement of it? Well, there's some, there's some pretty hefty enforcements that if you violate this, or if you're going to designate a third party and they're going to violate it, mom and dad are the ones who are held responsible by the court, not their third parties. Um, they're held in violation of it, but the next section says, okay, so we've already talked about that. Either of them could designate a third party of they're enabled to, right? But it says that the complete legal name, contact info address and telephone number of the third party who will be transported, the child must be exchanged with the parent prior to using said third party. So if you're going to use a third party again, it goes back to, they have to have a via valid license and insurance. They have to have appropriate car seat or booster seats that children have to be in the back seat of all cars or trucks. I mean, all the same rules apply to them as well. But if you're going to use a third party, then you have to exchange it. Now it's not permission. It's not, it's not that well, I'm going to have Sydney pick up the kids. No, you're not. No, it's simply notification. But let's say for example, that, um, that I designate somebody, my, my neighbor to come pick up my kids from your house, right. We have kids together. So odds are that. If I showed up to get the kids, they'd be like, daddy, daddy, daddy, they're going to come out. And you're going to be fine with our kids coming out to me. Right. But if I sent Joe my neighbor over to pick up the kids and Joe shows up, knocks on your door and says, Hey, I'm here to pick up the kids for Matthew. Yeah. Like you're getting our kids do a strange, right?

Speaker 3: 11:43

Like that's not happening

Matthew Brickman: 11:45

Insect grants one. Okay. So that's why, if it's going to have happen in Sydney, sometimes people want added in here, not just legal name, contact info, address, and telephone number, but a copy of the driver's license

Sydney Mitchell: 11:58

I was going to ask, do they have to exchange, you know, upon exchange of the child confirm the person's license or information? Is that typical?

Matthew Brickman: 12:08

Uh, no, not, uh, not really. Cause usual usually people know because luck, I mean, if dad is going to designate somebody, well, the kids probably know who that is. Right. You know, like, for example, if I'm going to say, you know, my neighbor, well, the kids probably know who my neighbors. Cause when they're over here, they know who he is. So he can be like, Oh mommy, you know, it's fine. It's it's daddy's neighbor, you know, or whatever,

Sydney Mitchell: 12:30

Too, for parents don't send somebody, your kids don't know to go pick them up.

Matthew Brickman: 12:35

Exactly. Nailed it. Nailed it. We're going to get into it in a moment of where it takes place. Let's say for example, it doesn't take place at home, but let's say that the parties are meeting at a neutral location.

Sydney Mitchell: 12:46

Absolutely. When I, when I shadowed, um, one of your mediations, I guess it's been maybe a couple of years ago now. I don't know. Maybe it was about a year ago anyway. Um, I remember the two parties that you were mediating with or for, um, they had decided to exchange the children in a neutral location that was equal, distant from both of their homes. And that was, uh, that was a big point of conflict for them who was going to come pick them up, what time, um, and all of that. So, and I was a bit surprised that that was such a point of conflict for me. Um, you know, my, when I exchanged, my dad always dropped me off at my mom's house and it was never that big of a deal. Um, but you know, maybe for some parents, maybe their relationship is a little more, um, challenging and you know, they do have to find another solution that they can both agree upon. Uh, in order to feel like, you know, they have some ownership of the exchange

Matthew Brickman: 13:44

And Sydney. It also depends on the time sharing schedule itself. Sure. Because depending on what they create for the time sharing schedule, for example, I'll give you an example. I had, um, I had a mediation recently where the father lived out of state. He lived it, he lived in a different state, but he had a residence here in Florida. He moved out of state for a job, but he was going to have an out-of-state schedule, but he was going to come back to the state of Florida when it was his time sharing in the state of Florida. Right. And so what he wanted was he said, look, you know, I'm going to take a flight from my state to Florida and get there. But by the time I get there, it's going to be about seven 30, eight o'clock at night. So you know what, I'm going to have my babysitter pick up the child at the mother's house and go to my house. So as soon as I get back from the airport, well then my babysitter's there. Oh my gosh, we spent about nine hours going round and round on that because the mom's like, no, I should, the child should be with me, not a babysitter until you're ready. It's like fine. Then he'll pick up the child at nine o'clock at night. No, that's too late. Yeah. And so, and so we went round and round and round and round trying to figure out where the two of them, like, you know, because we have, we have a couple pieces first off it's where has it taken place? And then what time is it taken place? Right. And, and so, you know, going to the next section. So that, that was the first paragraph, which is just the general, like, okay, these are just a rules about it. Now we get to, okay, how do you actually do it? Okay. What the court's like is the courts like where mom and dad are not engaging each other, seeing each other, having to deal with each other on an exchange. So they like the pickup and drop off from school because one parent will take them to school. The other I'll pick them up. They never see it. Right. I mean, there is not this meeting at a neutral location. They have to see each other or drop it.

Sydney Mitchell: 15:42

And it's easier on the child, honestly.

Matthew Brickman: 15:46

Yes and no, because sometimes the parents are like, Oh my gosh, that means that our child has to take backpacks and skateboard to school because they're, you know, they're, they're taking everything from one parent's home to another parent's home, but has Sydney, the schools are well-equipped. They understand these parenting plans. They understand, you know, the, the state of the world and how many kids are on parenting plans. It's not an issue that the schools know. I remember when my kids did it and they would, I remember one day I was walking the kids and just go, cause they had, they had a couple of bags of skateboard and stuff. We walked in the office to drop the stuff off. Right. Cause you know, this was middle school, so they didn't have lockers. Right. Oh my gosh, Sydney, there were skateboards and backpacks everywhere. Well, I mean the schools that the schools are used to it, so yeah.

Sydney Mitchell: 16:32

I remember, um, when I was growing up yeah. I would always have, Oh my gosh. Textbooks. And then it really, it really throws off your, uh, your everyone's schedule when you have your day at school and then you go to a friend's house and then you exchange to the other parents. So you've got like three bags of things to bring. And I always remember when I would have to bring an extra backpacks, you know, I always had like one or two teachers that I knew, you know, that really liked me or that understood. And you know, I went to those same teachers, every, you know, when Tuesday, Wednesday, or weekend, whatever, whatever days paper, uh, and they would always let me stuff my bag under their desk or somewhere back out of the way in their classroom. So I'm sure that increasingly over time it's become more and more common. Um, I would expect so, yeah.

Matthew Brickman: 17:20

So, so exchanges typically, and we, and we put in the agreement, the exchanges typically will take place at school or camp unless there's no school or camp or a child is sick. I mean, that's where it's happening, but then okay. How does it happen?

Sydney Mitchell: 17:32

Yeah. I w I have a quick question if a parent preferred. So for the sake of not making the child lug around 5 million backpacks, if the parents both agreed and prefer to exchange the child outside of school and drop-off, would they have the option to do that? Do parents ever refer about, or did they ever,

Matthew Brickman: 17:56

Well, actually I did that this week where the party said luck, you know what to do to their schedules, because I think mom was a nurse and I don't remember what dad did, but basically what, what they agreed on was exchanges will take place at our, at each of our homes at 7:00 PM. So yeah, it was, I mean, it was, it was not during school hours. It was not even during aftercare hours, it was going to be a 7:00 PM exchange. That's where it was going to be. And it was going to be at their homes or I've had people just say, look, we're going to do a mid point neutral location. It's 6:00 PM. That's where it is. And it's never from school or camp. Sure. The parties have the option, but that's why it says exchanges typically take place. And then if they want to change that and Sydney so much of this too, depends on the parenting plan. For example, I'll give you an example. Let's say for example, that the parties are doing a week on week off timesharing plan, and they're doing a Saturday to Saturday. Well then exchanges are either at their homes or it's at a, it's at a neutral midpoint. It's not at school. Um, so it depends on the schedule. Let's say that they're doing a two, two, five, five schedule that we've discussed really like mom has every Monday, Tuesday dad has every Wednesday, Thursday, they alternate weekends. Okay. Well, based on that, all the pick-up drop-off can be at school. They never see each other. But like I said, because couple did this one, couple, they had a two, two, five, five schedule. The problem was because of their particular jobs and work schedules. They agree that it wasn't going to be at school. It's just going to be a 7:00 PM. Pick-up drop-off fine.

Sydney Mitchell: 19:29

Really is just as much flexibility as parties need and are willing to negotiate. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman: 19:35

Yeah. And so we've got our standard language that then, and I don't tell you most. And when I say most, I'd say probably 95, 98% of the people just go with just the standard. Because when you're looking at a two to three, three, a two, two, five, five, or a seven, seven schedule, the courts want the parties to not have to engage each other. They want as few altercations or potential applications as possible school makes it simple because neither of them are going to be at the same location at the same exact time. So

Sydney Mitchell: 20:04

Changed since Corona virus with children attending school at home. Now there are many children, um, you know, whether young or middle high school that are doing school completely online, what does that look like now?

Matthew Brickman: 20:16

So what that looks like is, um, and, and since then, we've, I mean, I've actually created a specific paragraph for that. So where we would say, you know, you know, the first one starts out saying exchanges, typically take place at school or camp, unless there's no school or camp or the child's sick. Right. And it says in the event, this is I'm going pre COVID. Okay. So I'm just gonna tell you what it is and then what it is. So pre COVID, our typical language was in the event that exchanges are taking place at school or camp, then the parent ending time sharing, transports children to school or camp at the beginning of the day, the parent beginning timesharing is responsible to pick up from school or camp on that day. That makes sense, right? Like, okay, I'm going to take the kids to school. And then you're at a, you're picking them up because you're starting your time sharing. Then you're picking them up. Great. If, if, if, if, if it's still my, if it's still my time sharing, I'm taking them, I'm picking them up fine. If there's no school. So it says on days where there is no school, the parent beginning timesharing picks up the children at the other parent's home at a mutually agreed upon time. Unless they otherwise agree in writing, this has a lot of flexibility to it. I think you were just alluding to it because, you know, well, you know what it is, it is instead of a mutually agreed upon time, do we put a specific time? Sometimes people need those specific times. Um, and so we may say, okay, it's, it'll just, like I said, with that other couple, they said, okay, it's going to be a 6:00 PM or 7:00 PM. Or maybe it's a 9:00 AM pick up, like whatever they agree to. We put in, it's going to be at this time, unless they otherwise agree in writing. Right. We also put here that the parent beginning time sharing, picks up the children. Sometimes people say, well, what about the parent? Indian will drop, put them off. They can do that. But can we talk about, well, what are the potential logistics? Like in theory, all of this sounds good, but how does it work in a practical setting out in the real world? Just like, you know, you were sharing what was going on with like your mom and dad. Right? So let's just walk through this one sentence parent, beginning time sharing picks up. Okay. So if it's your time to start Sydney, well then you're going to come and pick them up from my house. If it's my time to start, I'm going to come pick them up from your house. Great. Now let's say that it's reversed. Let's say that the parent ending. Okay. So you're ending your time sharing and you're bringing them over to my house, but what if you wake up late and the kids aren't cooperating and you're trying to get them and I've got plans, like I'm expecting that you're supposed to be here at 10 and you're not here at 10:00 AM. And because I'm taking, I'm taking the kids to a movie that starts right. Well, parent ending life can happen. And by the time when you get to me, it's late and it throws off my entire day. We missed the movies and guess what? Now we've just created conflict. Life can happen. So many things can happen, especially with children. Like, you know, and it's not intentional. It's not malicious. It's not like, okay guys, we have to be at your dad's at 10, but we're just going to wait until 10 59 to walk out the door for or nine 59. No, like just life can happen. Right? Like, you know, maybe, maybe the night before the electricity somehow went out your alarm clock, didn't reset. It. Didn't go off your run. Like so many things in life can happen. So you know what? It just makes it easier that if you're starting go pick up, that means that they look, if I'm starting, and I know that I've got plans that day, I'm going to go pick them up. I'm gonna get them and there's going to be no problem. So that's why, so we, I'm always thinking preventative maintenance, not damage control. So how do we help the parties prevent as much conflict? And so something as simple as parent, beginning or ending can either create or advert a lot of con or avoid a lot of conflict. Right. So then we talk about, okay, so if you're, if you're picking up and dropping off at the other parent's home, what are the rules? Okay. So we've already said there was no confrontation or communication, verbal or nonverbal, such as gestures. Okay, fine exchanges or curbside, pull up, honked. The horn kids come out now sometimes fine as maybe a one-year-old. The kid is just not going to grab their bag and come out. But it's still curbside. You're not getting out of the car and walking up to the house and potentially having a conversation or confrontation, no exchanges or curbside. And then we go even deeper. Neither parent may enter the other parent's home unless the home, unless the parent is home and invites him or her inside authorization enter the home from a child is not considered consented entry shall be prohibited. Do you have any times I've heard stories of, Hey dad, you want to come see my new room? Sure. They come in

Sydney Mitchell: 24:54

X,

Matthew Brickman: 24:54

Y what are you doing in my home? Like, no, you like, not potentially causes conflict. Like, you know, especially now here's another problem. Let's say, and we're not even to this, we're going to get this in future episodes. When we, when we talk about a home, like the parties had a home together, right? Well, somebody gets awarded what they call exclusive use and possession, which means the other parent can, you know, whoever has exclusive use possession can change the locks. You have a parent waives, all rights and liabilities. They no longer own that home. You can't just walk into somebody's home. Like no bed. That potentially is a, is a disaster waiting to happen. But we put it,

Sydney Mitchell: 25:38

Did you run into that situation often? Like if violations to the agreements are made, what is your involvement then in resolving?

Matthew Brickman: 25:46

Usually. So usually my involvement happens when if, and when they go to court and then the judge, um, either we'll figure it out. I'm not involved or we'll order them back to mediation with explicit instructions to redo or figure it out. Or the judge will figure it out. And they don't like what the judge did. And they come back to me to fix what the judge did. But, but a lot of this too, I also hear a lot. Cause you know, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I don't practice law. So I'm not, I'm not in court with, with parties a lot. This is what I hear the attorneys telling me that they're constantly having to then get the phone calls on or they're having to file motions or they're having to deal stuff, deal with stuff. So again, my job, I'm trying to be preventative for the parties. So they don't have to come back to my table. They don't have problems. They don't have to get their attorney and deal with litigation and whatnot. So then we've got, then, then, then we've got a couple of, um, what I call my, if then if this, then what scenarios, because we already said in the beginning, exchanges will take place at school or camp unless there's no school or the child is sick. Okay. So what do you do if the child's sick? Well, you've got two options because either the child is, goes to school and then is sick and has to be picked up or you've got a child is sick and can't go to school. Well then what do you do for the exchanges? Right? I mean, I, Sydney, I've tried to figure out as many scenarios or listen to the parties as life has happened and helped other people based on, you know, you've just got to look at a parenting plan. Sometimes people look at parenting plan going, Oh my gosh, there's so many rules. You got to look at this and be like, wow, somebody screwed up. That's why there's a rule. Right? So, yeah. So in the event that the child is sick and not able to attend school, the child would be cared for during the day, by the parent who had the child on the previous evening for timesharing and the parent entitled to time sharing that evening is responsible to pick up the child in the same manner that he or she would have picked up the child from school or aftercare. Okay. Now what happens if the child never went to school, if in the event that the child or not, I mean, sorry, if the child does attend school and then you get a phone call going, Oh, that kid's sick now who has to take care of the child? Well, and the event that the child attends school and is released early due to an illness, then the parent exercising time sharing that evening is responsible to pick up and care for the child for the remainder of the day. So many times what, what happened in the past, that name was, um, and this was just how it was, was, you know, regardless of who was entitled to timeshare right on that day, mom always got the phone call. Mom had to leave work. And that was it. Dad's like, no, no, no, no I'm working. I can't leave work. Well, guess what? Now that the parents do not have rights and entitlement to the child, the child that has the rights and entitlement to both parents so that the parents can enjoy the joys, the rights and the responsibilities of child rearing. If it's your day, it's your responsibility shared parental. And especially with a 50 50, a two to three, a two to five or seven, seven, you know what it levels the playing field. And so guess what, going back to day-to-day decisions, if it's your day, it's your decision, no interference from the other parent. Now sometimes, sometimes this and keep in mind, this is the default. This is when the parties can't agree. Can't get along. Sometimes a mom may say, look, it's my baby. I don't care. I will take care. Uh, you know, I will be the one, look, if the parties want to do that fine. But as a default, whoever is entitled to the day for timesharing is the one who's also responsible. So to answer your question about now, 20, 20 forward COVID and whatnot. Okay. What happens if a kid is attending school at home? What if they're doing virtual school? Because some of these rules then change, right? Like, okay, well we were doing pickup and drop off at school, but school's actually home now it's my home. And it's your hub, right? So now what do we do? So we've altered the paragraph and created a new one that says, okay, exchanges typically take place at school or camp, unless there's no school. The child is six. That that's all the same in the event. Exchanges are taking place at school or camp parent ending timesharing takes the child to school. And the parent beginning picks up still the same rules, right? If a child is attending school, virtually each parent's home address shall be the location for drop-off and pickup. And the child will be dropped off like he or she would for school. So the child can be ready and logged in on time in accordance with the rules of the school. So now let's say for example, we've got kids and so you've got Monday, Tuesday, I've got Wednesday, Thursday. So I've um, so my time is ending. I would normally take them to school. Now I got to drop them off at your house. Just like I would drop them off for school. So if they have a 7:00 AM, you know, drop off because they have to start school at seven 15, I'm dropping them off to you, just like I would for school. And then if it's still my day, let's say it's still at my day. Well, if they get done at 1:30 PM, it's my job to then come and pick them up at your house at one 30. Just like if it was a regular school day, unless you and I otherwise agree, you may say, Hey, look, you know what? I'm home, I'm fine. You don't need to leave work at one 30. Just pick them up after you get out of work at five. Okay, fine. But if you and I aren't agreeing that it's done just like the rules of the school and that's how, that's how then we've, we've helped navigate, um, that portion of, you know, COVID and school, um, and whatnot. And then the last section that we've got here is just a general courtesy section as a matter of courtesy parent picking up or delivering the children do so in a timely manner. And in the event of an unforeseen delay, parties will communicate with one other immediately. So the parent not transporting the children is aware and kept informed of the children, parents, whereabouts and expected time of arrival. So, you know, it was just a courtesy clause. So going back to, you said, um, you said I'm going to go back to the transportation piece here. You had said that your parents were just picking up and drop it off at home. Um, and they were the only ones doing it, correct? They were doing it from each other's homes and schools.

Sydney Mitchell: 32:23

Yeah, we would exchange, um, to and from school typically if, and when we had school and then outside of that, um, I would go from my dad's to my mom's if I was at my mom's that weekend on Friday night at 8:00 PM and my dad and my stepmom would go together to drop me off at her home. Um, I'm trying to, I feel like I remember, you know, them driving me around more. Um, but now that I think about it, I can remember some times that my mom dropped me off at my dad's. It was less common. So, um, so yeah, yeah, there was, there was a little bit of both, there was exchange through school. Um, and then there was some parent to drop off. We didn't have any neutral location or anything like that. Um, my parents lived, you know, within 30 minutes of each other, my entire life. And so, and they, you know, they're not, you know, they're cordial. So that part of the agreement was a bit easier than maybe some parties, but that was kind of what my, my exchange looked like

Matthew Brickman: 33:20

When the parties and just, you know, just, just to wind down this episode, um, when the parties cannot do each other's homes or don't want to do each other's homes, then usually they will decide on a halfway point. Right? Lot of people are like, let's do it at a police station. Oh my gosh, that is the worst place to do an exchange because you're teaching your child to associate a negative with a positive, like it's a police station, plus here's the problem. Police stations don't have cameras outside. So if there's an altercation and a lot of police stations, even sub stations, nobody's there unless they get called. So it's not a good place, the best place to do exchanges. I always recommend for people is a public service counter. There are cameras all the way around a public service counter, and there's a Publix everywhere. Right. And so it's a great place to do. The exchange is inside at a public service counter. It's a great place to do it. Um, and, um, and now it's sometimes going to ask me

Sydney Mitchell: 34:25

For those of our listeners that live out of state. Um, Publix is just our, our grocery store.

Matthew Brickman: 34:31

Yeah. Publix is like a Kroger or Wagman's or

Sydney Mitchell: 34:37

Something like that.

Matthew Brickman: 34:38

It's a grocery store. Yeah. Thank you, Sydney for that. Okay.

Sydney Mitchell: 34:41

I just wanna make sure, cause I'll mention it to people I'm from up North. And so I'll be talking to family and stuff up North and I say, Simba, Publix. They're like what? Oh, what? So I just wanted to clarify

Matthew Brickman: 34:52

The other things. One of the, one of the tools, and there's so many different tools that, that, you know, as a mediator I've I've I have for people's one of the tools to help people is there's a website called what's half-way dot com. Easy to remember. What's halfway, what's halfway down that all the time and you use it all the time, especially when, when the parties are arguing, you know, like when they say, Hey, we want to, we want a place halfway in between or midpoint where like, okay, what's your address? What's your address? And what's really neat about it. Sydney is you can go to what's half-way dot com put into addresses, and then it says, okay, do you want a restaurant? Or do you want a gas station? Do you want entertainment? Like, and you get to pick and it shows you a map and it, and it's a great tool to help people when they're going, Hey, I want to midpoint now. Um, couple of minutes left. Uh, I just want to give a quick story. Um, you and I were talking a little bit before the episode, um, I recently had a nine hour mediation that we spent talking specifically about this, this topic transplant

Sydney Mitchell: 35:51

Is insane to spend nine hours.

Matthew Brickman: 35:53

Well, yeah, cause I mean, I mean, I can do an entire divorce home, equitable distribution, alimony, child support parenting plan in like three and a half, four hours. You know, if everybody's in the same room, we did nine hours on transportation and exchange. The problem was this, the parties lived quite a distance away. Dad lived in Miami, mom lived in Riviera beach. So I mean it's more than 50 miles. Okay. This was right around COVID COVID had just started. And um, I had done their mediation. They could not agree on a timesharing schedule. Dad wanted 50 50 mom said no. Now the problem was 50 50 is hard to do when you've got that kind of distance. But Dan said, well, I'm going to be moving closer. So we're like, okay, well dad did not move closer. Dad moved further away. Then he said, when we were in mediation together. So then the problem was they went in front of the judge and the judge pre-code, this was right around COVID was just like, you know what? The child's not even in school. Um, so you know what, we're just going to do 50, 50 week on week off. That's it. That's what we're going to do. Well, the problem was logistically, it's almost impossible to do. In fact, it is impossible to do a 50, 50 timesharing when you've got more than 50 miles away when a child is in school. So the judges quick fix to that worked for March, April, may, June and July. But guess what? The child was starting school in August and dad in Miami and mom and Riviera beach did not work because it's like, where's the kid going to school? Well, going back to our education section that we talked about, somebody has got to be named for school boundary, right? Well, if Dan has school boundary, that means mom is having to drive back and forth to Miami for the kids for school. Do you know what time that kid's gotta be up in the morning? Like four o'clock in the morning to be on the road to get to her

Sydney Mitchell: 37:55

Or, or

Matthew Brickman: 37:58

Mom's got school boundary and dad has to come from Miami to Riviera beach. And so what a lot of people fail to realize that this whole transportation section is regardless of how long mom or dad is in the car, the child is in the car the entire time. Right. And is it really in the best interest of the child? Well, the judge just made a quick hasty decision. Not, not even thinking about, Oh, wait a second. This child's going to be in school and gave the dad 50 50. So now they come back to mediation and logistically 50, 50 doesn't work once the kid is in school. But do you think dad's going to give up 50 50? Absolutely not. Now it's a power play. And do you think that, and you know what, neither of them wanted to drive? Well, how can you do 50 50 when dad's in Miami mom's or a beach and nobody wants to drive you can't like it it's it's, it's a logistically forget about even if they wanted to, you can't do it. So my suggestion to them was why don't you pick a charter school halfway in between the two of you were school boundary is not applicable. Okay. It seems like a reasonable compromise, right? The problem was, well, I don't like that charter school. Well, that charter school is a little bit closer to you or it's a little bit closer to me and I don't want to have to drive. I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, and it's like, what about this black kid? The kid is the collateral damage of their decisions and the judge's decisions. And so,

Sydney Mitchell: 39:23

Because if a child is attending a school, that's, you know, 30, 40 minutes away from either of their homes, you know, at the same time, like my school was relatively close to both of my, you know, it was close enough to both of my parents' house that I could build community, have friends spend time with friends easily because they were too far away throwing a kid in school in a city that neither of you live is, is I would think would be really hard on the trial, making friends, spending time with people. And then, you know, if they do want to hang out with friends, the parents still got to drive to, you know, there. So yeah, I would, I would see that creating a lot of conflict.

Matthew Brickman: 40:00

Well, one of the other concerns was, well, what if, and going back to her in the event that the child is sick and is released early due to an illness, well, who's going to get the child. How soon can they get there? Well, can I get out of work? And how far do I have to drive? I mean, a lot of logistics, unfortunately, the, when, when the judge made their hasty ruling, they didn't think like we are talking and like, I think preventative maintenance, they were thinking, okay, I've got two people in front of me. I've got a, I've got a four-year-old, you know what, 50, 50 week on week off, get out of here and leave me alone. But what about when the child goes to school? And unfortunately, then that was left for me and the two attorneys and nine hours later create an agreement that neither of them loved, but they could live with it. And like, I've all, like I tell people in my opening and I've gone through, when you and I discussed my opening, my job is to empower them, give them creative suggestions and help them create an agreement that they can live with. If they can't live with it, I won't let them sign it. But, you know, so when it comes to transportation going all the way back to your original question, when it comes to transportation, yes, the parties do have control just like most of the parenting plan, the time sharing and, and they've got control to create, um, things that will help them be able to facilitate it. And in the next podcast, we're going to talk about, um, all of the travel. So this is all, okay, how are we going to do the exchanges for the sharing, but there, we're going to get into all of the travel. Occasionally Sydney and I will be releasing Q&A Bonus Episodes where we will answer questions and give you a personal shopper. shout out.

Sydney Mitchell: 41:44

If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com that's info@ichatmediation.com and stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show.

Matthew Brickman: 42:00

For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me, either in person or using my iChatMediation Virtual Platform built by Cisco Communications. Visit me online at www.iMediateInc.com. Call me at 561-262-9121, Toll-Free at 877-822-1479 or email me at MBrickman@iChatMediation.com.