Child Support: Without Primary And Secondary Parenting Who Pays What?

Child support is only a baseline. What about all those other additional expenses that come along with raising a child such as daycare, aftercare, summer camp, activities and so on?  Matthew Brickman and Sydney Mitchell discuss how additional child support expenses are negotiated and split among two parties in Mediation Agreements for Divorce & Paternity and what happens when one party fails to pay.

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Matthew Brickman is a Florida Supreme Court certified family and appellate mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. But what makes him qualified to speak on the subject of conflict resolution is his own personal experience with divorce.

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Matthew Brickman
President iMediate Inc.
Mediator 20836CFA
iMediateInc.com

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ABOUT MATTHEW BRICKMAN:
Matthew Brickman is a Supreme Court of Florida certified county civil family mediator who has worked in the 15th and 19th Judicial Circuit Courts since 2009 and 2006 respectively. He is also an appellate certified mediator who mediates a variety of small claims, civil, and family cases. Mr. Brickman recently graduated both the Harvard Business School Negotiation Mastery Program and the Negotiation Master Class at Harvard Law School.

Transcript

Mediate This!: 0:00

Hi, my name is Sydney Mitchell. Hi, I'm Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

Sydney Mitchell: 0:14

Well, Matthew, I'm really excited about our conversation today. Uh, everyone in our last episode, we talked about how the baseline child support rate is calculated. And today we're going to talk about the additional child support related expenses that are included in both a mediation agreement for divorce, as well as a mediation agreement for paternity. Um, so Matthew take us away.

Matthew Brickman: 0:37

All right. So, um, as you said, yeah, these are found in both the paternity and a divorce agreement, um, under the child support section. So the first thing that we do is, um, we have to get their gross incomes, um, whether they are actual or agreed upon. And those are what we would use in the child support, you know, that we had talked about last time. And then once we get those, the very first thing that we talk about, um, is daycare, aftercare, and summer care. Um, so, you know, in the last episode we talked about how that's one of the line items. One of the statutory components is supposed to be in a child support calculation, but I think we had mentioned that we, a lot of times leave that out. Um, and so the reason why we leave it out is because it's a moving target. Like, say for example, you have like a three or a four year old, so you've got daycare. Well, once that child starts pre-K well now you only have half a day of daycare once the child is in kindergarten. Well, now you have aftercare. If we had,

Sydney Mitchell: 1:44

Sorry, finish your thought and we can cut that.

Matthew Brickman: 1:46

Okay. So if we had, um, put it into the child support guidelines calculation, then every time it changes, the parties would be forced to pay, to reopen their case, come back to mediation and redo the number

Sydney Mitchell: 2:04

I was going to say, are we having to renegotiate this every time? Or are we deciding what that's going to look like at every stage of their life, putting it in here? And now it's decided upon

Matthew Brickman: 2:14

So great question with an answer of, we don't know what those costs are at every stage of life, right? Like, let's say for example,

Sydney Mitchell: 2:23

Incomes might change and things might

Matthew Brickman: 2:26

Change, but also the cost of daycare, like we know inflation, right? We know things always go up. So right now childcare for an aftercare, maybe like$150 a week, but then they have a three-year-old well that who knows if that is still going to be$150 a week and three years. So no, it's impossible to do that. So it really does force them to have to come back that also clogs up the judicial system. Um, and it just, it unnecessarily causes parties to spend money. So,

Sydney Mitchell: 3:02

Right. How do you, how do you streamline this then? Because there are so many changing variables through the years. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman: 3:07

Yeah. So, so what we've done is, let me first tell you what this, what the statute says, okay. With regards to childcare. So the statute says that childcare costs that's daycare, pre-care aftercare, summer care childcare costs incurred due to employment, job search, or education that's calculated to result and employment, or to enhance the income of current employment of either parent shall be added to the basic child support obligation. So that's why it's a line item in the child support calculation that we talked about last time. Cause the two says fine, this is where it goes. Now what's interesting is let's say for example, that mom is in school. And so she requires aftercare. Dad works in works, and he gets off early. So he doesn't need aftercare. So does mom have to pay for, and dad doesn't have to contribute towards it. No. If one or both of them need it, then it's there and they're both contributing towards that cost.

Sydney Mitchell: 4:35

Hmm. I did not know that. I'm thinking, I'm just thinking about, you know, me growing up, my parents were divorced since I was really young. Uh, in case you guys don't know my story and yeah, I'm thinking about all the times I was an after-school care and XYZ. Um, and so yeah, I'm, I'm starting to put pieces together for my own what my own, you know, but my parents negotiation could have been, so this is always interesting for me to hear.

Matthew Brickman: 4:56

Yeah. So now there are times where, for example, the parties will negotiate because look, you're in, you know, the parties are in mediation. They can agree to do whatever they want. There are times where the parties will say, Hey, look, you know what? We're going to negotiate this. I don't need it. You need it. So you pay for it not, and I'll just take care of my own. And they are like, okay, fine. Like again, it's mediation. They can negotiate everything. But if not, then they're both, they're both putting the child into an aftercare program, a summer care program, um, so that they can work right now. If you remember back to the parenting plan where we talked about shared parental responsibility and decision-making, and it says the parties have to mutually agree on the facility. They do not have to agree on whether or not the child is being placed into a childcare program. So the reason for the reason for the mutual agreement on the facility is let's say that mom needs it. And dad doesn't while they both have to contribute. So let's say the mom says, Hey, I'm going to put the child in this private daycare at a thousand dollars a week. And dad's like, why they're, you know, regular daycare is, is 150 a week. Right? Know, they have to agree on that because they do have a split of the financial responsibility, but they don't have to agree on whether or not the child's placed if the child has to be placed there because one or both of the parents either have to get a job they're looking for a job or they're in school to enhance their income and make more money. Yeah. You have a question.

Sydney Mitchell: 6:33

What happens if, um, you see me kind of just pointing out in here, um, what happens if the two parties cannot agree on the facility that you know, that one of them may be suggesting that, that the child goes to for aftercare or something like that? Do you ever have any, you know, how would you deal with that? Do you, have you ever had any obscure situations where, you know, the parents just could not agree on something like this? Um, how would, how would they, how would they handle it or how is that addressed or is it even addressed in this document?

Matthew Brickman: 7:01

Well, it can be an actually I had that recently in a mediation where, um, the father, all right. So the child, the child went previously, went to a specific, um, daycare. It was a daycare. Okay. Cause the child wasn't in school yet. Now the child is about to go to pre-K. And so the child's just going to need to have what they call wraparound care or aftercare. Right. The mother wants the child to go back or actually to, um, stay in the facility that the child has been doing daycare rent. Dad wants to move the child to a different facility. Okay. Why? Well, mom wants to keep the child in this particular facility because it's closer to her home. And dad wants to move to a particular, uh, daycare because it's closer to his job. So it then helps facilitate than the pick-up drop-off and the timesharing. Right? I mean, all of these things all are intertwined together. So we went round and round and round. We then pulled up all, you know, the, both the parents had done their research on, you know, this one's a gold star label or this one's rated this or this one's rated that. And you know, Oh, I've, you know, I, you know, this parent, this, uh, what do they call it? Um, child teacher ratio is smaller. There's a smaller classroom. It's more individuals. This one has cameras and you can log in and watch the child. And I mean, all the D you know, the parties bring all of the things that they would need to bring to a court of law. If they're going to let a judge figure it out. And so we look at all these things, we research these, we talk ins and outs, and then, you know, um, generally Sydney that happens when the parties have attorneys, when the parties do not have attorneys and they're trying to stay out of hiring attorneys and they don't want to go to court, they've already figured this out.

Sydney Mitchell: 9:14

Yeah. And what happens when, you know, let's say I'm a mom and I have, you know, you know, our time sharing agreement is, let's say 60 40, or, you know, I'm, as a mom, I have primary, you know, I have more time with the child than my ex-husband does. Um, does that then influence the weight of, you know, because I have the child more, I get to have more say in where the child goes, how, how is that dealt with?

Matthew Brickman: 9:43

I used to, because remember, you know, there's no primary, secondary parenting, right. Florida back when there was primary secondary, it wasn't just primary for quote unquote timesharing. It was primary as timesharing and decision-making well, when they, when they got rid of the primary, secondary parenting, they separated out the two issues, time sharing. And decision-making so yeah, you could have a 60, 40, you still have 50, 57. Okay. And especially when it comes to the monetary, uh, component and contribution of these things of these, um, there are two different ways to do it. So let's continue with this paragraph.

Sydney Mitchell: 10:25

Sorry. I don't mean to pause this up with all my questions. I'm just trying to think in the mind, in the middle of negotiating, something like that.

Matthew Brickman: 10:33

And, and these look, you're asking the questions of the situations that I deal with every day. So these are the questions that, you know, the parties probably have, you know, is they're listening to this. They're probably going a little bit. My situation's like this, well, what about this? What do I have more say? Because I have more time. Um, you know, keep in mind, everybody needs to keep in mind that the statute is child focused. So everything is best interest of the child. The court actually does not care if it's, if it's more convenient or less convenient for one or both parents, they don't care. They don't care if they're in the car because here's the deal. Let's say, for example, Sydney, before we, before we continue, let's say for example, that the daycare for mom is a little bit closer to mom, a little bit further from dad, right? So mom has to do a little less driving. Dad has to do a little more driving. Okay. So take mom and dad's perspective out of it. You, and you know, this firsthand, you are the child of divorce, right? You're in the car the same amount of time. It doesn't matter if it's further or closer for mom or dad, the child is in the car the same amount of time. And so the court doesn't care. If it's more or less convenient for mom or dad, the child's in the same situation. They're in the car, go from one place to

Sydney Mitchell: 11:54

Another, regardless of these cards,

Matthew Brickman: 11:57

You still got the transportation. So, so daycare, aftercare, summer care is necessary due to either of both of the parents, employment, job, search, or education calculated to result in employment or enhance the income. So how do we get around having to put it into the child, support guidelines, worksheet, and actually have it there where they have to keep coming back? Well, I have a paragraph that explains to the court what they're doing and why they're doing it so that they can save money. So, and it's written, as you can see, it's written in very, very, very plain English, no legal jargon. It says the parties acknowledge that this is one of the costs to be included in the child support guidelines, calculation, but due to the age of the child and this cost increasing or decreasing over time in order to save the parties, money from incurring fees, for filing multiple modifications, like we've talked about additional attorney's fees and mediation costs, because that was what they would need to come in. Then redo the child, support the parties, agree that this cost will be left outside of the child support guidelines, calculation, but be divided with the mother, paying a percentage father a percentage. So let's stop there. Where do we get the percentages? Remember when we talked to child support last time when we ran the child support based on mom and dad or husband and wife's income in the child support guidelines worksheet, there was a line item that said, okay, well, dad brings 60% of the money to the table. Mom brings 40% of the money that table. So that's one way that we figure out then the percentage of responsibility for childcare, because, because it's supposed to be in the guidelines. If it's in the guidelines, it will be split based on their percentages of income. If so, it only makes sense that it's still split the same on the outside, but sometimes this is a negotiation tool. So they may say, Hey, look, mom may say, I want my, my daycare of those two dad. And so they agree, well, you know what? We're dad may have contributed 60% in mom, 40, he'll say fine. You can have it, but you know what? You pay 70, I'll pay 30 or we'll pay 50 50. They can negotiate. I mean, we have said over and over throughout this podcast, everything's negotiable. And so this is another piece that is negotiable. Now, if the parties cannot agree, then statutorily, it's an MC jobs, support, guidelines, worksheet, vast, the percentage that they're doing. And that's how we divide it up. So we have talked about, this is a statutory component, but we're going to leave it out. We've explained why we're leaving it out. We've talked about how they're each going to be responsible, but then I, how do you pay it? Like, yeah, just the next logical piece. So the parties will each pay his or her portion directly to the provider on time. And then full window. If the parties are unable to pay his or her portion directly to the provider, due to the provider, not accepting separate payments then, and this is another piece that is negotiable Sidney within 14 days, sometimes it's 30 days. Uh, but within a certain period of time of paying the expense, the party who paid the expense will then forward to the other party, proof that they made the payment and provide a copy of the receipt. And then the other party will reimburse their portion within that same timeframe, like 14 or 30 days of receiving proof of payment and copies of receipts. So here's the here's here's what's happening here is that we don't want them to be exchanging monies back and forth and doing their own accounting. Right. As little as possible, because then, you know, he says, Hey, I paid it. She's like, not in full. Yes I did. I had some that. Yeah. So it's easier that look, if we're going to leave it outside and if dad's paying 60, mom's paying 40. Or if it's mom's facility and they agree, mom's paying 70, dad's paying 30. If they're doing 50, whatever the percentages are, they're each going to pay their portion to the facility. Okay. Now some facilities will not do this. They're like, because look, the only way the child's going there is if they're getting paid, well, they're not going to be waiting. You know, they're not going to get mom's 70% and wait for dad's 30 and let the kids still go there and dad's not paying. Right. So some facilities will allow it. Some of them won't, but we build in that we build in the option. If the facility allows, then this is how it's done. So the parties aren't exchanging monies, but if they don't allow, then let's say, for example, mom pays the bill. Well, she's going to then pay the bill. She's going to take a copy of the receipt and proof of payment, um, or an, uh, like, like for check or her debit or however she's paying Venmo, pay lbs, you know, however, and she's going to take a picture of that in text or email it today. Then he has whatever the timeline is. He has X amount of days to then reimburse her. So generally I like everything on 14 days, because number one, most people get paid either semimonthly or biweekly, like everyone gets paid either every other week or you get paid twice a month. It's not, most people don't get paid weekly and rarely does anybody get paid monthly. Right. So I like putting this on a 14 day turnaround because basically when you get your paycheck, then you're, then you're reimbursing. Because like, let's say, for example, one of the parents wants the entire bill. Well, that means that now they're short. Right. Um, and not, and not in height, but short monetarily. And so, you know, they need to get that money back. So that's why, okay. Mom's got 14 days to give it to dad, but dad look, life is busy. So we don't put these type times, like you got to get over that 24 hours. No, you got 14 days. And then guess what? Then he's got to reimburse within 14 days of giving it because she may give it to him. And he may be in, in between a pay period and not able to get it to her. Right. So within 14 days, fine can reimburse. Now, then we've got two more sentences. The first one says failure to timely, provide proof of payment as set forth in this paragraph shall be deemed a waiver of the right for reimbursement. So let's say, for example, again, mom is fronting the bill and this means that mom can not just collect a bill collect, collect, and then six months later say, Hey buddy, you want me to$10,000? No, that's not how this works. So, so you got 14 days. You know, if that's what we select 14 days within 14 days of paying the expense, the party who paid the expense before the other party fruit, they made the payment. So she's got 14 days. If she does not give it in 14 days, she cannot come and ask for it. She is a hundred percent responsible for it done over, moving on. Okay. Now the next sentence, failure to timely make reimbursement shall be enforceable through contempt of court proceedings. So let's say that mom fronds on a hundred percent gives it to Dan within 14 days. And then dad does not reimburse mom within 14 days. Then she could file a motion for contempt enforcement, for failure to pay. That's how that works. So, you know, it, it, it levels the playing field. It allows the parties to be able to put the child in to some sort of care so that they can go to school, find a job or work. We talk about what percentages they're paying, and then we talk about how they're paying it. And then we've got consequences for providing proof and also failing to pay. And that takes care of the first of a number of additional things that are, you know, child support. Like you said, in your intro child support is baseline and they leave got okay. Plus plus plus plus plus now sometimes with the Sidney, it doesn't say daycare, aftercare is necessary. Sometimes we'll say may become, because let's say for example, that, you know, both of the maternal grandmother, really the maternal and paternal grandmother's are watching the child, but maybe one day it may happen because they may not forever be able to watch the child. They may be elderly or whatnot. So we still build this in and says, okay, look, it's not necessary now, but it may become necessary. And if it becomes necessary, here's all the rules and how it happens. Right. Um, so that's, that's daycare, aftercare, and summer camp,

Mediate This!: 21:09

Occasionally Sidney and I will be releasing Q and a bonus episodes where we will answer questions and give you a personal shout out. If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com that's info@ichatmediation.com and stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show. For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me, either in person or using my iChatMediation Virtual Platform built by Cisco Communications. Visit me online at www.iMediateInc.com. Call me at 561-262-9121, Toll-Free at 877-822-1479 or email me at MBrickman@iChatMediation.com.